Monthly Archives: September 2016

Original online here.

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CITY COUNCIL
CITY OF NEW YORK
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TRANSCRIPT OF THE MINUTES
Of the
COMMITTEE ON CONTRACTS
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September 8, 2016
Start: 10:08 A.M.
Recess: 2:43 P.M.
HELD AT: COUNCIL CHAMBERS – CITY HALL
B E F O R E: HELEN K. ROSENTHAL
Chairperson
COUNCIL MEMBERS: Peter A. Koo
Ruben Wills
Costa G. Constantinides
Chaim M. Deutsch
Corey D. Johnson
I. Daneek Miller
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A P P E A R A N C E S (CONTINUED)
Charles Barron
New York State Assembly Member
Charles Levine
New York State Assembly Member
Michael Miller, Executive Vice President & CEO
Jewish Community Relations Council, JCRC
Stephen Greenberg, Chairman
Conference of Presidents of Major American Jewish
Organizations
Brooke Goldstein, Director
Lawfare Project
Evan Bernstein, Regional Director
Anti-Defamation League of New York
Abdus-Salaam Musa
Islamic Circle of North America
Jabin Imam Abdus-Salaam Musa
Islamic Circle of North America
Radhika Sainath, Staff Attorney
Palestine Legal
Linda Sarsour, Palestinian-American
Civil Rights Activist
Imam Talib Abdur-Rashid
Majlis Ashura, Mosque of Islamic Brotherhood,
Harlem
Paul Gazzola (sp?)
American Muslims for Palestine
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Jane Hershman
Jews They Know
Musha Berman, Student
Brooklyn College
Lisa Buchsbaum
Executive Director
Hillel Hunter College
Loren Soleman, Student
Macaulay Honors College at Hunter College
Jeff Wiesenfeld, Advisor
New York Board of Rabbis
Treasurer, World Jewish Congress
Member, JCRC Board
Cindy Poupko, Managing Director
Commission on the Jewish People
UJA Federation of New York
Donna Nevel, Board Member
Jewish Voice for Peace
Katherine Franke, Law Professor
Columbia Law School
Lamumba Bandelli
Malcolm X Grassroots Movement
Jim Forrat
Albi Posnick
Stand With Us
Al Jones
Joe Covell
Michael Letwin
Labor for Palestine
Jews from Palestinian Right of Return
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Hani Ghazi
Adalah New York
Pam Sporen Foster
Alice Sterns-Sutter
Imam Abdul Bazzi
Rabbi Yisorel Dovid Weiss
Jews Against Zionism
Cheikh Ahmed
Jordan Voke
Marshall Douglas
Rosalind Petchesky, Professor
American Political Science
Hunter College & CUNY Graduate Center
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COMMITTEE ON CONTRACTS 6
d
[sound check, pause]
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: Okay. [gavel] My
name is Helen Rosenthal. I’m going to call this
hearing to order. I’m Chair of the Contracts
Committee, and I want to welcome everyone here today,
and thank you for coming to what I think is an
incredibly important conversation where we have
strong feelings on both sides, and it’s so important
for everyone to hear what each other has to say, and
I’m really looking forward to this hearing. The
Committee will consider Resolution No. 1085-A
sponsored by Council Member Andrew Cohen. The
resolution condemns all efforts to delegitimize the
State of Israel and the global movement to boycott,
divest from, and sanction the people of Israel
commonly referred to as the BDS Movement. Since its
establishment in 1948, Israel has been one of the
United State’s closest allies, and New York City’s
large and vibrant Jewish community shares important
cultural and religious bonds with the people of the
State of Israel. Israel is also a vital economic
partner here in New York State. According to the
International Trade Administration, New York exported
$6.4 billion worth of merchandise to Israel in 2015.
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COMMITTEE ON CONTRACTS 7
Securing lasting peace between Israelis and
Palestinians, a peace that allows both the Israeli
and Palestinian peoples to live with dignity, free
from fear and violence, continues to be one of the
preeminent goals for our global community to achieve.
We must also ensure that individuals are able to
exercise their right to express their disagreement
with the policy choices of our or any other
government. This is an issue that understandably
inspires great passion on all sides. It is my hope
and my expectation that we can have a polite,
substantive dialogue that is free from harmful
rhetoric and respects the free and open exchange of
idea.
I want to acknowledge the members of the
committee who have joined us here today, Council
Member Koo and also I would like to welcome and thank
the members of the City Council who have joined us,
Council Members Levine, Grodenchik and Lancman and
Cohen. Oh, responsive. I want to give my deep
appreciation to the committee staff, Eric Bernstein,
our committee counsel; Casey Addison, our Policy
Analyst; John Russell and Brandon West from the
Finance Division and my Legislative Direct Sarah
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COMMITTEE ON CONTRACTS 8
Mallory. And before we begin, I’d like to turn it
over to Council Member Cohen, the sponsor of this
resolution, to deliver some remarks after which we
will be calling up members of the public to testify.
COUNCIL MEMBER COHEN: Thank you, Chair.
Good morning. I’m Council Member Andrew Cohen.
Today we are here to take testimony on Resolution
1058-A, a resolution drafted after much
contemplation, internal deliberation and discussion.
We are the New York City Council. Our resolution
represents our legislative intention and the document
speaks for itself. This is what it is, and this is
what it is not. Therefore, as my opening statement,
I will read the reso into the record so that everyone
understands exactly what we are taking on today.
Whereas, the Global Boycott, Divest and
the Sanction movement, BDS, is a campaign seeking to
exclude the Israeli people from the economic,
cultural and academic life of humanity; and
Whereas, this movement targets not only
the Israeli government, but Israel academic, cultural
and civil society institutions, as well as individual
Israeli citizens of all political persuasion, and in
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COMMITTEE ON CONTRACTS 9
some cases even Jews and other nationalities to
support Israel; and
Whereas, the Global BDS Movement targets
Israel and only Israel while ignoring the world’s
myriad despotic regimes; and
Whereas, Israel is far and away the most
democratic and open society in the Middle East
[cheers]; [pause]
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: As I say, I would
like this hearing to be a constructive dialogue, and
if we need to stop the hearing repeatedly to address
members of the public who are disrupting the
conversation, that will not only slow down our
hearing today, but I think it will also cased a pall
on the conversation. Please I beg of you can’t we
just listen to each other’s points of view with
respect and dignity. Please continue Council Member.
COUNCIL MEMBER COHEN: Thank you, Chair.
Whereas, Israel is far and away the most democratic
and open society in the Middle East with well
establish rights for religious minorities, women and
the LGBT citizens that far exceed those of any other
nation in the region; and
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COMMITTEE ON CONTRACTS 10
Where and whereas, the Global BDS
movement does not recognize the right of Jewish
people to national self-determination; and
Whereas, some of the BDS movement
supporters and leaders and trafficking unacceptable
anti-Semitic rhetoric including comparisons of
Israeli policies with that of Nazi Germany; and
Whereas, university based BDS efforts
violate the core goals of the university and global
cultural development, which thrive on a free and open
exchange and debate; and
Whereas, both Israelis and Palestinians
have the right to live in safe and security states
free from fear and violence with mutual recognition;
and
Whereas, the Global BDS Movement does not
support the two-state solution, a goal which can only
be reached through direct negotiations between Israel
and the Palestinians; and
Whereas, Israel is an ally of the United
States, and has a longstanding relationship with the
City of New York; and
Whereas, the City of New York has the
largest population of Jewish residents in the nation,
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COMMITTEE ON CONTRACTS 11
and is home to the largest Jewish community outside
of Israel.
Now, therefore, be it resolved that the
Council of the City of New York condemns all efforts
to delegitimize the state of Israel and the global
movement to boycott, divest from and sanction each
government and its people. Thank you.
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: Thank you very
much Council Member Cohen. I appreciate that. I,
um, so the way this works today is that as many of
you know, you sign up on a slip of paper if you would
like to speak. We already have about 50, a lot more
slips of paper. If there is anyone here who has not
signed up, but would like to speak, these slips of
paper are available right over here with the
sergeant-at-arms. We’re going to start today with a
couple of people who have—who, um, will start the
conversation for us. Hang on. I’m just going to ask
my peers one question so we can keep this moving.
When people support something, you do the—not so much
this. I saw a lot of shaking heads no, which I
really appreciated. So can we say agree, disagree?
Alright, thank you very much. We are going to start
with a former member of this body, our former council
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COMMITTEE ON CONTRACTS 12
member Charles Barron. He is currently in the New
York State Assembly, and I’m very honored to have him
here. Am I allowed to do this? [background
comments] We’re going to—I’m going to ask
particularly the electives, the first electives to
try to keep their testimony within a shorter amount
of time. As you know, at some point we’ll need to a
three-minute or two-minute rule, but please, Assembly
Barron.
CHARLES BARRON: Thank you very much.
This place looks familiar to me. I’ve been here
before, but I wanted to open my testimony by saying
that I will be reading the testimony of my wife, City
Council Member Inez Barron. She has a written
testimony. So I’ll read hers, make my few remarks
and read hers. But she just wanted to let everybody
know that she adamantly opposes this resolution.
Also, I know that you call for politeness and shaking
our heads up and down and thumbs up and thumbs down.
This is not a polite situation. There are people in
Palestine. [applause/cheers] There are–
SERGEANT-AT-ARMS: [off mic]
[interposing] No, cheering. Keep it down. Keep it
down.
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COMMITTEE ON CONTRACTS 13
CHARLES BARRON: –there are people in
Palestine that are dying as we speak. So when you
hear people offer passionate resistance to some of
the words that they hear uttered, it is because that
they know that people are dying, and this is not the
time for politeness. This is a time for justice. So
I just wanted to open up my remarks with that. You
know, up in Albany–I understand this resolution is
coming to Albany. I’m going to try to encourage my
colleagues in Albany not to support this resolution,
to support people’s right to boycott. Boycott,
sanction, divestment is a peaceful resolution toward
getting the human rights of Palestinians respected
and protected. It has been used to historically here
in America, boycott during Civil Rights Movement.
Divestments, sanctions during the South African AntiApartheid Movement. So boycott is a fundamental
right. So for the government to pass or have an
executive order saying that we’ll gag and punishments
that companies that exercise their First Amendment
Constitutional right to say that they don’t want to
do business either with the State of Israel or with
the companies that are doing—making money off of
settlements. There are some companies that are
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COMMITTEE ON CONTRACTS 14
producing the bulldozers to demolish Palestinian
homes, and these companies and other companies that
do business with the State of Israel it is our right,
whether you agree with us or not, it is our right to
boycott and to say divest and to say sanctions
against the State of Israel. We have a right to do
that. So the first thing that you’re violating, and
I’m really shocked that you would come up with a
resolution asking or demanding that people be
punished for violating people’s First Amendment right
to express their opposition to a racist oppressor—
oppressive occupying state by saying we shouldn’t
even boycott. That is absurd and I’m doing
everything I can to stay contained because it is
absolutely ridiculous that we should even be here
entertaining such a resolution. Secondly, if we look
at the atrocities of the State of Israel, right now
Prime Minister Netanyahu is the most—now is the most
racist right wing leader of Israel that they’ve had
in a long time. He is violating all the laws of the
United Nations, violating even the request by the
American administration not to expand settlements.
Ignoring all of that, displacing Palestinians and
taking their land. Palestinian people, Palestine is
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COMMITTEE ON CONTRACTS 15
occupied. It’s in their legal settlements that are
occurring. I had the opportunity to visit the Gaza
Strip and there are some of Jewish folks say well the
Gaza Strip we gave them that back. You didn’t give
nobody nothing back. It was never yours in the first
place. So you didn’t give nothing back.
[applause/cheers]
SERGEANT-AT-ARMS: Quiet please.
CHARLES BARRON: You didn’t give anything
back, and I’ve been to the Gaza Strip. We had to go
through the border of Rafah. We had to go through
the Sinai Peninsula. Do you know that in Gaza they
can’t leave or things cannot enter that they need to
live because Israel has a blockade not only from
land, not only from the sea, but even from the air?
Nothing goes into Gaza or leaves Gaza without
Israel’s approval. That is a violation of the very
human rights of the people. In the last attack on
Gaza over 2,143 Palestinians were killed. Of that
2,143, 1,400 plus was civilians, civilians and these
civilians were killed intentionally.
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: Council Member, I
want to hear what you have to say, and I want to hear
what your wife has to say. You’ve been speaking for
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COMMITTEE ON CONTRACTS 16
six minutes, and I would ask that you find a way to
shorten, to find a way to say this succinctly
CHARLES BARRON: [interposing] Madam
Chair.
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: –as possible.
CHARLES BARRON: Madam Chair, Madam Chair
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: –because we
have–
CHARLES BARRON: [interposing] I
understand.
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: –many people who
want to–
CHARLES BARRON: [interposing] I
understand, Madam Chair.
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: –who want to
speak.
CHARLES BARRON: I understand.
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: It’s your call,
and certainly we will take that into the equation as
the next people want to speak. The next who want to
speak.
CHARLES BARRON: Well, Madam Chair, you
can make it appear that if I speak long, you’re going
to cut them off from speaking all you want
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COMMITTEE ON CONTRACTS 17
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: Oh, no, I’m not
going to cut anyone off from speaking.
CHARLES BARRON: But I—well, when you say
take them—take that into consideration–
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: [interposing]
What I’m asking you to do–
CHARLES BARRON: [interposing] Let me—let
me be firm.
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: –is be
considerate about the next people in line–
CHARLES BARRON: [interposing] You’re
just—you’re just taking–
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: [interposing] —
who are trying to speak.
CHARLES BARRON: –taking another
[interposing]
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: –and I’m noting
that you have been speaking fix minutes.
CHARLES BARRON: And—and six, and I—and I
understand.
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: [interposing] —
and what I’m going to do is very soon is put on the
clock.
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COMMITTEE ON CONTRACTS 18
CHARLES BARRON: You can put on
[interposing]
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: Thank you.
CHARLES BARRON: You can put on the all
the clocks you want. I came here to try to cooperate
with you. I’m going to say everything I have to say.
I’m going to read my wife’s statement. I call on you
to be patient, and people are fine. Are you all
alright with me speaking. [background comments] Not
true. They are.
SERGEANT-AT-ARMS: Quiet please. Keep it
down, please. Keep it down.
CHARLES BARRON: I am talking to people
who want to hear what we have to say. As state
elected official, I’ve sat in the seat where you sit,
and I’ve seen others come that were state elected
officials and speak for 10 and 15 minutes, and nobody
said anything. So I’ve been going 16 minutes and you
interrupt me. Now, we’ve taking another two minutes
[interposing]
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: So it was
minutes.
CHARLES BARRON: –for this interruption.
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COMMITTEE ON CONTRACTS 19
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: Let’s set this
one minute aside.
CHARLES BARRON: [interposing] I’m going
to spend 10 minutes. I’m going to spend ten minutes
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: –and if you’re
telling me that you can keep it down to 10, I’m with
you, brother.
CHARLES BARRON: I’m going to finish what
I have to say, and don’t call me brother
[applause/cheers] because that’s not—that’s not a—
that’s an expression that you commonly use. So don’t
use it on me. As I was saying before I was rudely
interrupted, I was trying to let you know the
atrocities of the State of Israel, the atrocities,
the murder, the murder that they committed against
500 innocent Palestinian babies when they invaded the
Gaza Strip, 500 murdered, and then they tried to say
that they put these babies next to rocket launchers
so they were using them as a human shield alive. They
also said that they killed all of these people in
Palestine, but oh, oh, it was terrorism. It wasn’t
terrorism. It wasn’t intentionally. You know what
they said? Collateral damage. Yeah, the terrorists
lived on the second floor of the building, so we’re
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COMMITTEE ON CONTRACTS 20
going to send a—a missile there, blow up the whole
building and call it collateral damage. It’s called
terrorism, and when you see those kinds of atrocities
for you to come with a resolution now, and nobody
stood up in this Council against the killing of all
of those Palestinian people on their land that you’re
illegally occupying, it is a crime against humanity,
and we should speak out loudly against that. The
other thing, when they say, well, you know, if you do
sanctions or boycotting, some of the pro or anti-BDS
Movement, people say, well, this is a—this is going
to hurt the Palestinian people. If you boycott them,
well, they won’t have jobs because the companies will
leave and they’ll lose their jobs. Well, you know
what, like we said the Apartheid Movement in South
Africa when they said sanctions will hurt the Black
South Africans who they didn’t care about anyway, and
who the opposition to BDS could care less about
Palestinian jobs. We said yes, sanctions might hurt,
but guess what, Apartheid kills. So, while sanctions
might hurt, but the State of Israel’s Apartheid
policies in Israel kills. So I’m going to read my
wife’s statement, and conclude it with that, but
encourage all of you to take your names off this
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COMMITTEE ON CONTRACTS 21
resolution. It is absurd and especially the Black
members of this City Council. Black members of this
City Council and people of good will should not be on
this resolution because Israel was a partner with the
racist Apartheid regime in South Africa. They’ve
partnered with them. Why don’t you say something
about that? They partnered with apartheid. When all
the world was against apartheid, Israel was a partner
of the murdering of African people. Not a single
black person in their right mind should be on this
resolution. They should be off this resolution and
all those whites, Jews, Muslims of goodwill should be
off it as well. I’m going to read my wife’s
statement, and then I’m finished. [applause]
SERGEANT-AT-ARMS: Quiet, please, keep it
down.
CHARLES BARRON: She first wanted to let
everybody know she’s against the resolution, and she
writes: The Boycott, Divest and Sanctions Movement
is an international campaign to bring pressure on
Israel to end discrimination, oppressive and deadly
oppression of the Palestinian people. It is
supported by and advanced by a collaboration of Jews,
Muslims, Christians along with others of various
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COMMITTEE ON CONTRACTS 22
faiths. Jewish Voice for Peace, Mennonite Century
Church, Quakers, Presbyterian Church, World Council
of Churches. The BDS Movement seeks to advance
peace, and improve the lives of Israelis and
Palestinians. Palestinians, achieve an equitable
two-state solution and conduct interfaith dialogue.
A boycott is a protest that calls for withdrawal from
commercial and social relations with organizations or
countries. Divest—divestment is an action that sells
off economic holdings. Sanctions penalizes or
imposes penalties, and these factors are used when
other negotiating measures have not been successful.
These tactics historically have been successfully
used in major movements to an oppression–against
oppression and racism and suppression. The Civil
Rights Movement gained momentum and expanded through
the famous Montgomery bus boycott along with boycotts
and sit-ins at Woolworth stores. The apartheid
system of South Africa was put to an end when these
tactics was used. Locally Adam Clayton Powell, Jr.
and then Randy Evans Movement forced major department
stores such as AMS, Martins and EJ Korvettes to
change their policies and practices in favor of a
more racially balanced structure. Today’s nations,
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COMMITTEE ON CONTRACTS 23
education institutions and social organizations and
high profile entertainers and educating—education
consumers are joining this effort to bring an end to
oppressive conditions that has allowed conditions to
exist that have resulted in deaths of innocent
civilians including women, children, destruction of
family lives, increased numbers of orphans and loss
of economic opportunities for Palestinian people. As
Chair of the Committee on Higher Education, I am
particularly sensitive to ensuring that students
maintain their right of free speech even though some
may be offended by the issues which they seek to
advance. In the 1960s, students used their voices to
take action to be both proactive and responsive to
conditions in the world. The free speech movement
led to protection of students to engage in vigorous
debate on campus. The recent passage of SA-017,
which bars student groups from receiving funds if
they participate in an activity that causes harm or
casts disrepute on allied nations or its consumer
commercial products is unconstitutional. The
Executive Order, which penalizes companies that
participate in BDS is unconstitutional. Students
have traditionally been a catalyst for social
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COMMITTEE ON CONTRACTS 24
movements. They raised trade agreement. They raised
the heightened sensitivity to human trafficking.
They call out nuclear proliferation. Likewise,
students in no way should be inhibited from
participating in the BDS Movement and having
activities that bring this issue to light. BDS is
not about religion or national origin. BDS does not
call for boycotting Jews. This is not anti-Semitic.
BDS calls for an end to the discrimination of time,
discrimination practice of inside of Israel of the
right of return of hundreds and thousands of
Palestinians banished to refugee camps. BDS is a
non-violent response to a human rights violation
situation. It does not use bombs, shellings,
missiles, guns, attacks, or unlimited imprisonment to
try to achieve its objective. BDS, in fact—in fact,
is a tool to fight repression of a group of people
who are fighting for their dignity, their freedoms
and yes even their lives. Council Member Inez Barron
I thank you. [applause]
SERGEANT-AT-ARMS: Keep it down, please.
Keep it down. No clapping. Keep it down, please.
CHARLES BARRON: I thank you. I thank
you for this time. I thank you for hearing this
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COMMITTEE ON CONTRACTS 25
testimony, and I continue to encourage my colleagues
in government not to violate the human rights of
Palestinian people by supporting this resolution.
Thank you very much. [cheers]
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: Okay. The next
person– Thank you for your testimony. The next
person we have up. I’m sorry. Do any of my
colleagues have questions? No. Okay. I think it’s
Assembly Member Charles Levine, and just to describe
we started the hearing at 10:17 and it’s 10:34.
Okay. Council—Assemblyman.
CHARLES LEVINE: Thank you, thank you
very much. Let me being by stating that I may not
agree with everything that my colleague Charles
Barron stated, but I will fight as will you for his
right to have free speech and say whatever it is he
wishes to say. Now, Chair Rosenthal, I want to thank
you and the New York City Council for the invitation
to speak on this critically important issue. On a
very personal note, being with you today is like
being home for me. When I was in law school I lived
right across the street. I’ve had laws offices of
Vessey, and I spent a lot of time in the federal
courts just around the corner and my son Greg served—
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who is here today—served with great distinction as
Chief of Staff to your outstanding Council Member
Karen Koslowitz. But there is a far more compelling
factor that connects and bonds you and me, and that
is our nation, our state and our city’s relationship
with our strategic ally the democratic State of
Israel, but first a disclosure. I have a particular
bias in favor of Israel. I am an American Jew who
experienced no small amount of Anti-Semitism as a
youngster. I am president of the New York Chapter of
the National Association of Jewish Legislators and a
member of its national board of directors. I have—I
have introduced and fought for Constitutional antiBDS legislation in our State Capital, and I have
spent time in, and I have family in the nation of
Israel. But the real reason that I am here today is
that I am a citizen of America, and I am a citizen of
New York, and because of that remarkable status, I
prize and I value as do each of you and as I trust
does everyone in this room, I prize and value
justice, fairness and national, state and regional
self-interest. To be sure, those uniquely American
concepts of justice and fairness had absolutely
nothing in common with the well financed and highly
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orchestrated movement to demonize and delegitimize
our strategic ally Israel. I guess that made a
point. That may have made a better point. That may
have made a better point than I anticipated it would.
Not only is there no common ground, but the interests
of Americans the interests of New Yorkers scream out
for our governments, federal, state and city to stand
with and stand by the only democracy in one of the
world’s most dangerous neighborhoods. Let me discuss
the rationale for the resolution by first stating
that those who would oppose it, have adopted a
particularly myopic and indeed to my mind prejudicial
view of American history. Since our earliest days,
our nation has engaged in what today is called
economic diplomacy, trades and policy.
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: So, again. I’m
sorry, Assemblyman, can you just hang on one second?
CHARLES LEVINE: Certainly.
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: Again, if, uh,
what I would ask is that the members of the audience
who are hare use their hands and their heads to
indicate their feelings about what the speaker is
saying. However, I would ask you not to orate those
feelings. I just saw an obscene gesture from the
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gentleman in the back of the room, and that will not
be tolerated. I’m going to ask the sergeant-at-arms
at this time to please remove the gentleman, uh, who
made the obscene gesture. That will not
[interposing]
SERGEANT-AT-ARMS: Keep it down.
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: –be tolerated in
this room.
SERGEANT-AT-ARMS: Keep it down, please.
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: I am very
interested and can see the thumbs down. I can see
the hands waving like this, and I can see the nods
waving no. We can all see the signs that you’re
caring. This committee will not tolerate obscene
behavior. Please continue.
CHARLES LEVINE: Thank you, Chair
Rosenthal. Since our earliest days, our nation has
engaged in what is today called economic diplomacy,
trade diplomacy, and commercial diplomacy. President
Thomas Jefferson waged war against the Barbary states
because he made the wise determination well within
our national self-interest that the United States
would not pay tribute to nations that enslaved our
sailors, and that we would not pay ransom to purchase
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their freedom. During the Civil War, the federal
government blockaded southern ports. Before American
entry into World War I, President Woodrow Wilson
honored the English sea blockade of the Kaiser’s
Germany and on July 26, 1941, President Roosevelt
froze all of Imperial Japan’s assets in the United
States to retaliate for Japan’s cruel occupation of
French—French Indochina. This cost Japan threequarters of its overseas trade, and nearly all of its
critically needed imported oil. More recent—recently
the United States and New York State imposed
substantial sanctions on corporations that did
business with Iran’s energy sector. And when the
states of Indiana and North Carolina enacted antihuman rights legislation in 2015 and 2016, Governor
Cuomo wasted no time issuing an executive order
barring New York officials from non-essential travel
to those states. There’s no doubt that Paul Krugman
and Tom Friedman are right. Trade can act as the
facilitator of good relations between governments and
people, but for the last several years, those who
oppose the existence of Israel have used the trade as
a weapon against our ally. The BDS Movement and the
movement to demonize and delegitimize Israel are
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designed to harm that nation, and for what purpose?
Some might argue that the intent is merely to oppose
Israeli settlements on the West Bank. That is to
send a message to the Israeli government that it
should negotiate with the Palestinian authority, but
it is the Palestinian authority for its own
parochial, political interest that refuses to go to
the negotiation table. And as is, as has so often
been said, sadly, tragically the Palestinian
government has never missed an opportunity to miss an
opportunity. We all know that the real underlying
philosophy of this movement is to bring about the
annihilation of Israel. An organization self-labeled
as quote, unquote Palestinian Civil Society, a major
proponent of the BDS demonization is almost naively
candid when its official website boasts that its aim
is ending Israel’s occupation and colonization of
Arab lands. We are not so naïve as to doubt—to doubt
that occupied Arab lands refers to all of Israel, and
as Omar Barghouti, who is the godfather of the BDS
Movement has stated [interposing]
SERGEANT-AT-ARMS: Quiet please.
CHARLES LEVINE: –has stated its aim is
to annihilate and end the Jewish state.
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CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: Mr. Levine, I am
going to ask you to start to think about wrapping up.
CHARLES LEVINE: I have about a minute
and a half.
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: Okay.
CHARLES LEVINE: Thank you. UCLA’s
Professor Judah Pearl was still a grieving father of
martyred American Journalist Daniel Pearl has
written: Antisemitism targets Jews as individuals.
Antizionism targets Jews as people. Antisemitism
would deny Jews equal standing as human beings.
Antizionism would ban Israel from equal membership in
the family of nations. There s amore basic reason
that Governor Cuomo signed the executive order, which
bars dealing with BDS—companies that engage in BDS.
Simply speaking, that movement is bad for business
for the State of New York. We know that there’s over
a $6 billion trade that goes on between New York
State and Israel, and since 2003, more than half a
billion dollars has been invested by our Controller
Tom Dinapoli in Israeli interests. Israel is as well
our strategic military partner in a part of the world
in which Americans and we New Yorkers have few
friends. Military cooperation and Israeli military
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advances along with Israel intelligence are
indispensable to the defense of our nation. This is
a truth that is self-evident as we today sit several
hundred feet from thousands of our family members and
friends were murdered nearly 15 years ago. Nearly
half of our states have enacted some type of anti-BDS
and anti-demonization measures. These measures do
not punish free speech. They punish actual conduct
that is injur—injurious to Israel, and injurious to
America. So why on earth would we New Yorkers stand
idly by while our ally is injured? There are no
innocent by-standards—standers. In this battle.
This is a battle for democracy itself, and it is—it
is Israel so despised because it is the beacon of
modernity in a part of the world where modern
thought, communication, democracy and human rights
are anathema to the forces of fundamentalism and
atavism. Again, I want to thank you, and I want to—
for letting me share my thoughts. I want to
recognize Council Member Andrew Cohen for authorizing
this legislative initiative. And finally, let me say
this. It’s a quote, a quote from Golda Meir.
[background comments] And that quote—and that quote
is this: There will be peace in the Middle East when
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there is an Arab leader courageous enough to demand
it. Thank you.
SERGEANT-AT-ARMS: Keep it down. Quiet,
please.
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: Thank you very
much Assembly Member. We really appreciate your
time. Seeing no questions, I’m going to ask Michael
Miller from the JCRC to testify next. Thank you.
[pause, background comments]
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: May I ask you if
you could possibly limit your comments to possibly
five minutes?
MICHAEL MILLER: Yes.
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: thank you.
MICHAEL MILLER: [coughs] Thank you,
Madam Chair. Good morning everyone. [coughs] My
name is Michael Miller, and I’m the Executive Vice
President and CEO of the Jewish Community Relations
Council of New York, which represents more than 60
local Jewish organizations in New York City,
Westchester and Long Island. I am here to speak in
favor of the passage of Proposed Resolution No. 1058-
A, a resolution condemning all efforts to
delegitimize the state of Israel and the global
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movement to boycott, divest from and sanction the
people of Israel. I want to thank all the council
members who have co-sponsored this important
resolution, and specifically commend Speaker Melissa
Mark-Viverito, Council Member Cohen and the Chair of
the Jewish Caucus, Council Member Mark Levine efforts
have been instrumental in bringing this matter before
us today. And, of course, thank you, Madam Chair.
The relationship between, the city of New York and
the State of Israel is deep and ever-evolving. As
the city with the largest Jewish population anywhere
in the world, many New Yorkers share great interests
and concern for developments impacting on Israel’s
safety, security and viability. As the Holy Land,
Israel is not only central to the Jewish faith but
also to Christian—Christianity, and Islam. Jesus
walked and preached in the Holy Land from Galilee to
Jerusalem, and it is where the Prophet Mohammed
preached and ascended to heaven. Beyond faith, New
Yorkers and Israelis share many values. Israel and
the United States are two vibrant and robust
democracies. As such, Israelis and New Yorkers both
actively participate in their political discourse and
drive progress and change. We make it a priority to
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ensure that our poor are elevated, our hungry are
fed, our sick are cared for, and that each person
regardless of race or the color of their skin has
equal rights and privileges enshrined in law. In
fact, Israel is the only country outside of the
United States that commemorates Martin Luther King,
Jr. Day, and as we are but three days from the 15th
anniversary of the devastating September 11th attack,
it is particularly meaningful to note that the Israel
Memorial to the victims of 9/11 was unveiled several
years ago in a picturesque setting on the outskirts
of Jerusalem. At that time, US Ambassador to Israel
Daniel Shapiro stood at that haunting structure,
which lists the names of all of the victims, and
reminded us that, “Here at this painfully beautiful
memorial site, we are a reminder to everyone that we
Americans and Israelis stand together in a spirit of
solidarity and commitment to the future.” That
spirit is non-partisan. One need not be a member of
a particular faith or a political party to support
the U.S./Israel relationship. This is not a
Democratic issue or a Republican issue. It’s an
American issue. Together we must maintain this
relationship as successive U.S. administrations have
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demonstrated. It is this issue today, which the
resolution before you reaffirms. Speaking of
reaffirming, it is also reaffirming that over the
last 15 years, active commercial ties between New
York and Israel have blossomed in a wide range of
industries. Hundreds of Israeli companies are
publicly traded on the major exchanges here in New
York. The Cornell Tech team on campus on Roosevelt
Island will soon benefit our students, our economy
and the whole of society. American musicians
regularly perform in Israel and Israeli cultural
icons often entertain here in New York, and each year
our city and state ship more than $5 billion worth of
exports to Israel. Over the last decade the State of
Israel has been a victim of economic warfare in the
form of a well orchestrated and well funded campaign
to delegitimize the world’s only Jewish and
democratic state. Activists from all around the world
including here in America have sought to cripple
Israel through BDS, boycotts of Israeli products,
divesting from Israeli companies and more importantly
American companies doing business in Israel, and the
imposition of a global sanctions regime upon Israel.
The BDS movement has had some success in intimidating
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supporters of Israel in several arenas including the
arts cultural corporations, academia, churches,
grocery store, pension funds, investing firms and
many more. While the movement’s leaders claim they
wish to have an open and honest discussion about
Israel, its activists have publicly shouted down
Israeli speakers, disrupted Israel focused evented
and rejected applications from pro-Israel scholars to
participate in academic panels concerning Israel. So
much for open discourse. But why is Israel targeted?
The propaganda spewed by such activists claim that
its purpose, the BDS Movement’s purpose is to
pressure Israel into ending its occupation of the
West Bank, East Jerusalem and Gaza. However, upon
further examination of the BDS Movement’s stated
goals, it is clear that it’s actually not interested
in really providing the Palestinians with an
independent state alongside Israel. Rather, BDS is
actively seeking to replace the Jewish state with a
Palestinian state. Seventy years ago after the
horrors of the Holocaust were revealed, the world
woke up and understood the imperative for the
establishment of the Jewish state as a haven and
homeland. The need for the Jewish people to be in
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control of their own destiny. Over the years, Arab
armies, Arab boycotts and Arab terrorism have been
used to try to exterminate the Jewish state but, oh,
thank God, it failed. Now, in an era when the last
survivors or Hitler’s Holocaust are passing away,
malevolent individuals under the guise of pursuing
Palestinian self-determination are seeking to deprive
the Jewish people of that very same right to selfdetermination. That is highly discriminatory and
anti-Jewish, a double standard of the worst order.
As the resolution here implies, peace in the Middle
East depends on both Israelis and Palestinians
working together toward the mutual goal of a
negotiated two-state solution: Two states for two
peoples. In contrast, BDS tactics are one-sided and
are focused solely on the elimination of Israel. BDS
turns a blind eye to Palestinian actions, which seeks
to undermine the two-state solution, such as
terrorism; indiscriminate rocket firing in civilian
areas; repeated refusal to negotiate for peace; and
unfortunate rejections of Israeli offers for
Palestinian statehood. Rather than focusing on
improving the situation for both peoples, BDS
activists sabotaged the internationally backed peace
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process that is premised on the advancing mutual
understanding and resect between the parties.
Economic boycotts and divestment actions will not
help the Palestinian people. The path to this twostate solution depends on creating an atmosphere of
peace of and reconciliation combined with economic
development and political achievement. Blocking that
path is the BDS Movement. If you believe in the
right of the Jewish people to be safe and secure in
their historic homeland, I urge you to support this
resolution. If you believe in the right of the
Palestinian people to their own state alongside, but
instead of Israel, I urge you to support this
resolution. If you believe in a true peace process,
and opposed divisive destructive tactics that attempt
to cripple our ally Israel, I urge you to support
this resolution. If you believe that together we can
play a constructive role in ensuring that Israelis
and Palestinians can work towards achieving mutual
understanding, cooperation and a better future for
themselves, their children, and their grandchildren,
I urge you to support this resolution. Thank you.
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: Mr. Miller, I
appreciate your testimony. I—there are some
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questions from members of the Council, but for
housekeeping purposes, can I ask you to please sit to
the side while we hear from a panel of individuals
who have to leave–
MICHAEL MILLER: [interposing] That’s not
a problem.
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: –at 11:00 and
then I’m going to ask you to come back. Alright?
MICHAEL MILLER: Thank you.
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: Thank you. Can I
please call up Brook Goldstein, Stephen Greenberg and
Evan Bernstein, and I also want to welcome Council
Member Miller. Than, you. And I’m going to as that
you each try, um, that you each limit yourselves to
three minutes. So if I could le the sergeant-at-arms
know we’re going to start the clock, and we’re
setting this at a strict three minutes, uh, time.
STEPHEN GREENBERG: I’m sensitive. I’m
very sensitive, Madam Chairman, and I will try to do
it within three minutes. I have copies. You’ll
forgive me if I go a little overboard. [coughs] My
name is Stephen Greenberg. I am the Chairman—is that
better? Okay. My name is Stephen Greenberg. I’m
Chairman of the Conference of Presidents of Major
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American Jewish Organizations. On behalf of the
conference there’s 53 representing the entire
spectrum of the American Jewish community. I want to
thank you, Madam Chair. I want to thank the
committee and Councilman Cohen for your interest in
and commitment to this very important resolution.
Combatting the BDS Movement and its bigoted,
discriminatory and reprehensible goals and
activities. The ramifications of BDS are far more
nefarious than economic and political isolation. BDS
is increasingly posing an actual physical threat to
Jewish students and advocates of the Jewish state,
and its activities span the commercial, cultural and
academic spheres.
SERGEANT-AT-ARMS: [interposing] Keep it
own please
STEPHEN GREENBERG: BDS—BDS is a–
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: [interposing]
Okay, so the next outburst that I hear from this
audience that person will be asked to leave the
chambers. So please. I see your faces. I see your
hands. We all do. Let’s let this panel finish.
Let’s let the questions finish with Mr. Miller, and
then we’ll be going on to a panel, as I’m sure you’re
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anxious to know, that we’ll be alternating con and
pro the resolution. Please continue.
STEPHEN GREENBERG: BDS is a poison that
is permeating our communities, a cancer of hate that
metastasizing to through society. Fortunately, and
this hearing really is a, I and example of it.
Societies are not judged by those who spread hate.
Rather, we are judged by those in positions of
authority who react and counter that hatred.
Although the BDS campaign has far reaching
aspirations, it is engaged in racist and
discriminatory tactics in every domain.
PROTESTOR: [interposing] [shouting
protests]
STEPHEN GREENBERG: It has a particularly
intense focus on universal campuses.
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: [interposing] So
sorry, but I’m going to have to ask the person who
just shouted to leave the chambers–
PROTESTOR: [interposing] [shouting
protests]
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: –so we can—
[shouting protests and applause] So, I have no
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problem clearing the Chambers. This is important
discussion.
SERGEANT-AT-ARMS: Please clear—please
clear the floor. [shouting protests, applause]
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: May I ask the
sergeant-at-arms to please escort the individuals who
are speaking out at this time out of the Chambers.
[shouting protests, applause] As—as we all know what
the rules are in the Chambers, you can hold signs
below your neck as your seated. I’m going to ask
that anyone who is not following those rules, to
please be escorted out. And as you all know, I am
very interested in hearing a dialogue a respectful
dialogue about this topic, and that can best be done
when we can all literally hear what each other is
saying. [shouting protests] I’m sorry. Is someone
still speaking up there because raise your hand, and
I’m going to as the sergeant-at-arms to remove you if
you feel to need speak at this time. Okay. Thank
you very much. We’re going to continue now quietly
with this very important discussion of ideas.
Please.
PROTESTOR: [shouting protests]
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CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: May I as the
sergeant-at-arms to please [applause] remove the
individual who just spoke up. I am very interested
in hearing from those people who have signed up to
testify. In order for us to hear from the people who
have signed up to testify, we need quiet in the
Chambers, and I will tolerate nothing less.
STEPHEN GREENBERG: Shall I continue.
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: Please continue.
STEPHEN GREENBERG: So, I want to go off
of my prepared remarks and make comments, if I may.
I spend a lot of time worrying about what’s happening
to Jewish young men and women on college campuses.
I’m sure you’re aware of what happened right here in
Hunter not long ago, and I’m sure you’re are–
PROTESTOR: [interposing] [shouting
protests]
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: Alright, so I
would ask that this individual, sergeant-at-arms be
taken out of the chamber–
PROTESTOR: [interposing] [shouting
protests]
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: –as he is
continuing to disrupt the hearing that we are trying
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to have and a discussion of ideas. Thank you very
much to the sergeant-at-arms. I would ask that this
individual who is also speaking up be escorted out of
the chambers so we can have a quiet hearing in order
to hear those who are here to testify and share their
ideas at this time. Thank you very much.
PROTESTOR: [interposing] [shouting
protests]
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: Again, if there
is anyone who plans [applause] to raise their voice,
if they could so now, now is the really good time as
we will be escorting you out of the chambers.
PROTESTOR: [interposing] [shouting
protests] [applause]
STEPHEN GREENBERG: So, [coughs]–
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: Okay, can I ask
you to please continue–
STEPHEN GREENBERG: [interposing] I’d be
happy—I’d be –
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: –while we have
quiet in the room.
SERGEANT-AT-ARMS: Please be quiet.
STEPHEN GREENBERG: I’d be happy—I’d—I’d
be happy to. So what I want to say, and then I’ll go
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onto my prepared remarks quickly and let you go
forward. This—this experience really for me is a
learning experience in terms of what—what our young
men and women experience on college campuses. When
people are cut. When the—when the Mayor of Jerusalem
is booed of the stage, when people who talk about
free speech, do nothing other than to interrupt
people who happen to have a position. So I thank you
for giving me this experience, and believe me when I
tell it will help me as I go forward in my last year
as Chairman of Conference. And some examples, by the
way, just some examples. Right here at NYU mock
evic—eviction notices were distributed in the
dormitories to Jewish kids. Well, SJP, which—which
is so-called Student for Justice in Palestine–
PROTESTOR: [interposing] [shouting
protests]
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: Here we go. So,
um, I would ask the sergeant-at arms to please remove
this individual–
PROTESTOR: [interposing] [shouting
protests]
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CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: –for anyone in
the audience who would like to testify and have your
voice heard–
PROTESTORS: [interposing] [shouting
protests]
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: –at the
appropriate time, we welcome you to sign up to
testify, but now unfortunately it’s not the time
because we are hearing from a panel. Thank you very
much.
PROTESTORS: [interposing] [shouting
protests]
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: Alright, is there
any other individuals? Just raise your hand if
you’re about to speak out, and—and we’ll have you
removed so we can hear from the panel. [background
comments] Alright, thank you very much. Please.
[background comments] Can the room please quiet down
so I can hear? Thank you.
SERGEANT-AT-ARMS: Keep it down, please.
Keep it down.
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: I just got my
ears cleaned.
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STEPHEN GREENBERG: Okay. So I think we
have just seen, and I was going to say what I had
just omitted from my prepared speech were examples of
what our kids experience. I now want to say that
what I’ve witnessed here is an example of BDS
inspired harassment, intimidation of Jews, which go
on, on campuses, and that’s only the tip of the
iceberg. Alpha Epsilon Psi, which is a major
international Jewish fraternity has had 24 instances
of physical abuse, physical abuse of young Jewish
men, 14 of which were hospitalized. That’s what’s
going on on our campuses today. So what you’re
doing, what you’re doing is really vital and really
important. Now, although this BDS movement tries to
positing itself as a “grassroots organization” their
connections to foreign organizations demonstrate that
there is nothing grassroots about it. In fact, BDS
is the progeny of the Arab League Boycott of Israel,
which began as a boycott of Jewish persons and
businesses long before the state of Israel was
internationally recognized. When the Boycott was
formally and publicly codified by the Arab League
Council on December 2, 1945, the statement released
by that group declared and I quote, “Jewish products
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and manufactured goods shall be undesirable, and
shall be boycotted by all Arab countries.” Long
before the state of Israel, long before the 1967 war,
long before any of the things we’re talking about
today. This BDS movement breeds the same
antisemitism and racism that is propagated by all the
dictatorial regimes committed to Israel’s
destruction, hereby–
PROTESTOR: [interposing] [chanting and
shouting protests]
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: So if this
individual– Sergeant-at-arms, could I trouble you
to please remove this individual [applause/cheers]
from the Chambers as we can continue to try to have a
hearing where we can have a free and open exchange of
ideas.
PROTESTOR: [interposing] [shouting
protests]
STEPHEN GREENBERG: Unfortunately, BDS
may sometimes seem attractive to our young and
impressionable students who are opening their eyes to
injustices here and around the world, exposing
themselves to new ideas and fascinated by domestic
and foreign movements for the advancement of civil
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and human rights, and rightfully so. But this BDS
campaign is the diversion of these ideas. Singling
out the world’s one and only Jewish state for
condemnation and delit—de—Oh, forget it. And like
many radical movements, BDS does more to hurt the
population it extensively serves than it does to hurt
the population it pardons. By exploiting the
Palestinian people in their reality under their
regimes, BDS ignores the rampant violations of the
Palestinians’ human and civil rights by the corrupt
political leaders that actually control their
realities, their opportunities and their futures.
Indeed, BDS is only pro Palestinian to the extent
that it is anti-Israel. I want to end—I want to end
by telling you how grateful we at the Conference are
for the work that you are doing. I appreciate your
letting us speak today along with my colleagues, and
I look forward to continuing to work with you as time
goes on. Thank you very much.
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: Thank you. I
want to acknowledge my colleagues Council Member
Treyger, Council Member Wills who have joined us and
Council Member Deutsch, Council Member Kallos. Thank
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COMMITTEE ON CONTRACTS 51
you very. Who—whoever is next please. Just speak
right into the mic. Thank you.
BROOKE GOLDSTEIN: [off mic] Is this mic
okay? No. Hello, testing. Alight. Good morning.
My name is Brooke Goldstein. I serve as Director of
the Lawfare Project, a legal think tank and
litigation fund dedicated to combatting lawfare, the
use of the law as a weapon of war against the west.
We are very grateful that the New York City Council–
PROTESTOR: [interposing] [laughter and
boos]
BROOKE GOLDSTEIN: -is interested in
learning about the bigoted–
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: [interposing]
Again, you know, I’m actually—I’m just going to give
you fair warning here. This is—this must be a safe
place for the exchange of ideas no matter how
repugnant they may be to you personally, I will not
tolerate any vocal outbursts whether that be
laughter, boos, or applause. So, I think I’ve been
quite patient over this last hour. I have been told
that there is another hearing that follows ours that
begins in two hours. I would like to make sure that
everyone who signed up to testify has a chance to
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COMMITTEE ON CONTRACTS 52
testify because I’m really interested as is the
Council here in what they have to say. So, I would
like to let the sergeant-at-arms know that the next
time they hear laughter or boos, I would ask you to
please escort those individuals out of the chambers
so we can be respectful as we hear from the people
who are currently testifying. Thank you. Please
continue.
BROOKE GOLDSTEIN: Also, I just want to
comment that there’s a clear irony here. Obviously,
people who are exercising their constitutionally
protected right to testify are being shouted down by
peopled holding signs say free speech. They don’t
get that irony clearly, and they’re not going to
silence us, ore they’re not going to silence us as we
talk about the bigoted and the discriminatory
activity that’s been propagated by the BDS members
and its proponents. As you may already know,
discrimination against persons, products and
corporations based on ethnicity and national origin
is not only illegal under the New York Human Rights
Law, but it is a position that is antithetical to the
guaranteed freedoms and the fairness that exists in
the State of New York and the Unites States of
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COMMITTEE ON CONTRACTS 53
America. As Mr. Greenberg correctly mentioned, the
boycott and divestment strategy aimed at bankrupting
Israel was conceived by the Arab League prior to
Israel’s independence in 1948 and targeted Jews. It
is a reflection of pure hatred against the Jewish
people and their state, and it is a rejection of the
Jewish people’s right to sell sovereignty. Many Arab
League countries have continued these commercially
discriminatory practices with the same stated
objective to this day, and the blackness has grown to
include a variety of businesses targeted solely
because of their national origin. The modern BDS
movement is an eventual derivative of the Arab League
Boycott. The two campaigns are synonymous in their
motive and their goals. They incite economic warfare
against a principal U.S. ally in the hopes of
destroying the world’s only Jewish state.
SERGEANT-AT-ARMS: [interposing] Quiet
please.
BROOKE GOLDSTEIN: While it cannot be
said that every BDS advocate feels hatred–
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: [interposing]
Alright, it looks like—could I please ask you to wait
on your testimony because I’m very interested—
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COMMITTEE ON CONTRACTS 54
PROTESTORS: [interposing] [shouting
protests]
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: –as are the
other members of the Council here, and so as soon as
the room is quiet we’ll be able to hear you. And you
should know, and I want to apologize to you because,
of course–
BROOKE GOLDSTEIN: Okay.
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: I’m the person
running this hearing and–
PROTESTORS: [interposing] [shouting
protests]
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: –I could make
the choice to clear the chambers–
BROOKE GOLDSTEIN: [interposing] Uh-huh.
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: –a 100%. I’ve
chosen not to–
PROTESTORS: [interposing] [shouting
protests]
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: –do that yet
because I don’t think that serves the value. I think
if—it is important to keep everyone in the room. So
I apologize in advance if you get interrupted again,
but as I’ve said before, what’s so important to me
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COMMITTEE ON CONTRACTS 55
it’s more the free and open discussion of idea. And
in order for us to do that, we need silence in the
Chambers. Thank you so much.
BROOKE GOLDSTEIN: Thank you.
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: Please continue.
BROOKE GOLDSTEIN: To respond to the
gentleman above, Zionism is the Civil Rights Movement
of the Jewish people. It is a movement to reestablish Jewish sovereignty in their historic
national homeland. Zionism is as legitimate as every
other civil rights movement. In fact, it has
informed and influenced various and other minority
groups in their quest for equality and social
justice.
PROTESTOR: [interposing] [shouting
protests]
BROOKE GOLDSTEIN: Anti-Zionism means
denying the basic civil and human rights of the
Jewish people.
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: So I’m sorry I
won’t be able to hear from you if you’ve signed up.
Sergeant-at-Arms, I’m going to ask you to escort this
[applause] gentleman out.
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PROTESTOR: [interposing] [shouting
protests] [applause]
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: Again, if the
sergeant-at-arms in the balcony could please escort
out the individuals who have disrupted this hearing,
I would appreciate that, and again, I’m really sorry
because I would have liked to have heard from them
during their time testifying. So again, if the
sergeant-at-arms could please escort this individual
out so we can hear from the people who have signed up
to testify, I would very much appreciate that.
PROTESTOR: [interposing] [shouting
protests]
BROOKE GOLDSTEIN: When you are an antiZionist–
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: [interposing] If
I could ask what you’re saying wait and not respond–
BROOKE GOLDSTEIN: [interposing] I
understand.
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: –at this time
because I can’t hear you.
BROOKE GOLDSTEIN: I got it.
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: And I—I’m
serious.
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BROOKE GOLDSTEIN: Okay.
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: I went to the ear
doctor yesterday.
BROOKE GOLDSTEIN: [interposing] No
problem.
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: All cleaned out.
BROOKE GOLDSTEIN: [laughs] Okay.
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: And I—I really
have no excuse.
BROOKE GOLDSTEIN: Okay.
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: So.
PROTESTOR: [interposing] [shouting
protests]
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: Alright, so are
we prepared in the audience to be quiet so we can
continue this testimony? Thank you very much.
BROOKE GOLDSTEIN: So when you are an
Anti-Zionist as the BDS supporters are, what you are
saying is you are denying the basic civil rights of
the Jewish people to self-sovereignty, and that is
racism because what they are really supporting is the
Islamist Movement, the Palestinian authority whose
aim is not only to destroy the Jewish state, but
oppresses its own people in the process. It uses its
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own children as human shields and naïve people who
support the BDS movement are misdirect in their human
rights advocate—advocacy because if they cared
anything about human lives, if they cared about
Muslim lives at all, they would be protecting the
gender race, and religious apartheid happening in
every single Muslim majority country in the world.
But they don’t care about Muslim lives. They don’t
protest female genital mutilation. They don’t
protest the use of the Palestinian children as human
shields, as child soldiers, as suicide bombers. They
don’t protest the indiscriminate—
PROTESTORS: [interposing] [shouting
protests]
BROOKE GOLDSTEIN: –killing of
Palestinian political dissidents.
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: [interposing] So
again, I would ask that the people in this audience
who can’t control themselves, to wait until it is
their turn to testify, to be escorted out of the
chambers. I really appreciate that. Thank you very
much.
PROTESTORS: [interposing] [shouting
protests] [applause]
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CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: So what I’d like
to do is have an opportunity–
PROTESTORS: [interposing] [shouting
protests]
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: –to hear form the
individuals who are—have signed up to testify, and,
um, if we could have quiet in the Chambers, then
we’ll be able to hear from those people who have
signed up to testify. Alright.
BROOKE GOLDSTEIN: Well, it cannot be
said that every BDS advocate feels hatred towards
Jews. The movement is inherently and undeniably
anti-Semitic at it’s core. That’s why when President
Carter signed the Federal Export Administration Act
into law, and made participation in the Arab League
Boycott illegal, he said its purpose was to, “End the
divisive effects on American life, of foreign
boycotts aimed at Jewish members of our society.”
Other federal laws including Ribicoff Amendment to
the Tax Reform Act, the Sherman Antitrust Act, have
also been applied to prohibit and penalize
discriminatory commercial activity against Israelis.
U.S. Federal law and policy is crystal clear,
participation boycotts against U.S. allies whether
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COMMITTEE ON CONTRACTS 60
they are Israeli, Chinese, Jordanian or Canadian are
intolerable and illicit. BDS activities are not only
illegal on the federal level. Indiana, New York,
Pennsylvania, Tennessee, Virginia State Legislators
have recently passed their unanimous resolutions
condemning the BDS Movement, and exposing it for the
anti-Semitic, anti-peace, anti-free speech initiative
it truly and openly. State laws have been or are
being enacted currently in Alabama, Arizona,
California, Colorado Florida, Georgia, Illinois,
Indian, Iowa, New Jersey, New York, Rhode Island and
South Carolina outlawing BDS activity. Other states
like our great state of New York have antidiscrimination statutes already on the books, which
include a private right of action for individuals and
corporations that face commercial discrimination
based on ethnicity or national original. In the
coming months, a dozen more—dozens more U.S. State
legislators will consider anti-BDS legislation. So
while radical BDS activists continue to advance this
repugnant movement, the national trend of the United
States towards condemning and often outlawing BDS
activity should be followed. The expectations that
discriminatory commercial conduct will soon be
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prohibited and penalized in every U.S. jurisdiction.
Here in New York boycotts undertaken on account of a
victim’s protected class have long been outlawed. In
fact, the New York Court of Appeals noted in a 1995
decision that New York’s own anti-boycott
legislation, “Found its impetus in the Arab League
boycott of Jewish businesses, and was drafted more
broadly to prohibit not only boycotts imposed by
foreign entities, but any business tactics, which are
driven by religious or racial bigotry. Section 296-
13 of New York State’s Human Rights Law provides that
it shall be a lawful discriminatory practice for any
person to boykit—boycott or refuse to buy from, sell
to or trade with or otherwise discriminate any
person, against any person because of their race,
creed, color, sexual orientation and national origin.
It is irrelevant under the law whether the impetus is
bigotry or supposed protests of the Israeli
government. While BDS proponents claim they are
acting to demonstrate disagreement with the Israeli
government, these claims are disingenuous and they
are transparent. BDS proponents are free to
criticize Israeli policies. Israelis do it everyday
in one of the world’s most active and dynamic
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democracies. However, targeting or discriminating
against a person or a company because of their
ethnicity or national origin is unacceptable. One
would not boycott a restaurant owned by a Chinese man
to protect the Chinese government’s policy. Now
would one refuse to purchase from an African-American
retailer to declare condemnation of the government of
Sudan. That is discrimination. That is illegal in
New York State pure and simple, and yet the BDS
Movement target individuals and corporations because
of their Jewish ethnicity and Israeli national
origin. Tellingly, the BDS Movement singles out the
Jewish state and only the Jewish state in it’s socalled human rights advocacy. This is racism pure
and simple. Finally, claims of the violation of
First Amendment rights are baseless and absurd.
Advocacy of a boycott or of the BDS movements’ more
general goals is not prohibited nor could it be
prohibited anywhere in the United States under the
First Amendment. However, when advocacy is combined
with action and it crosses the line from protected
speech to prohibited commercial conduct, there are
clear violations of law especially in New York.
Ironically, it is the BDS Movement and its proponents
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that operate to undermine our liberal democratic
values of free speech and association each time they
rabidly disrupt presentations and events on American
campuses featuring Israeli politicians, innovators,
artists and academics. Because of the unequivocally
unapologetically bigoted nature of the BDS campaign,
it is entirely appropriate, in fact, laudable that
the New York City Council is considering a resolution
denouncing the movement and its message. The Lawfare
projects stands firmly behind the Resolution 1058,
and we are available any time for questions or
comments. Thank you.
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: I think our—our
last speaker on this panel is Mr. Evan Bernstein.
EVAN BERNSTEIN: Yes, hi. Thank you,
Madam Chair and thank you to the committee for
allowing me to speak. I’m Evan Bernstein the
Regional Director of the Anti-Defamation League of
New York, 100 plus year-old civil rights
organization. It’s mission is to stop the defamation
of Jewish people and secure justice and fair
treatment for all. I’m proud to be here to say that
the ADL fully supports New York City Council
Resolution 1058-A, which condemns the Boycott,
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Divestment and Sanctions campaign, BDS, or any
manifestation of it in the State of New York. BDS
has a biased and simplistic approach to the complex
nature of Israeli—Israel Palestinian conflict. It
cast a dispute over territory—territorial and
nationalist claims is the fault of only one party,
Israel. We all hope and pray for a true resolution
to the conflict that allows for a secure, independent
and prosperous future for both Palestinians and
Israelis. The reality is that BDS offers no such
path to the Israeli-Palestinian negotiations, a
reconciliation or peace. It offers no constructive
improvement for Palestinians. It advocated—its
advocates do not support a two-state solution.
Rather, they seek to merely isolate, demonize Israel
and deny the Jewish state the right to stop
discrimination and statehood. To be sure increases,
increases in Israel and Israeli policies can be
reasonable and legitimate, but BDS, which singles out
Israel for pariah status is neither reasonable nor
legitimate. It is biased and disproportionate. We
have seen in New York City the divisive impact of BDS
on educational, faith, corporate, cultural and
political communities. On more than one New York
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City campus we have witnessed BDS lead to needless
agitation and division of the student body and in
some cases to Jewish, pro-Israel and even unevolved
students that in the fight, and feel isolate and
besieged. As legislators we have the responsibility
and opportunity to condemn the-the BDS movement,
movements of divisive and simplistic solutions. We
have the opportunity to support constructive
initiatives to build connections within Israelis and
Palestinians, and help prepare both societies for
peace. We have the ability to promote the investment
of mutually beneficial businesses, academic and
cultural ties with Israel. We support 1058-A as an
important declaration that the City of New York
recognizes and rejects the insidious and destructive
nature of the BDS campaign, and will work to enhance
the already strong ties within New York City, Israel
to work for peace, justice and equality. Thank you.
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: Thank you very
much. I want to recognize Council Member Kallos who
has joined us, and if the panel could stay for just
one more minute, a couple of Council Members have
questions. We’re going to start with Council Member
Lancman.
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COUNCIL MEMBER LANCMAN: Good morning,
everyone. Thank you very much for coming to testify
this morning on this very, very important issue.
[coughs] I want to thank you for illuminating the—
the issue as well as framing it. I particularly want
to thank you for the exposing the BDS Movement for
what it is, which is he latest in a long history of
anti-Semitic movements that seek to deny Jews–
PROTESTOR: [interposing] [shouting
protests] I’m listening and it’s all B.S.
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: [interposing] I’m
going to ask the, um sergeant-at-arms to please take
this individual out. There’s also an individual
standing—
PROTESTOR: [interposing] [shouting
protests]
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: –and I’m
actually going to ask for the recommendation of the
head of the sergeant-at-arms, that we take all the
people [applause] who are in the balcony out. So I
would ask that the sergeant-at-arms at this time
please take all of the members, all the individuals
who are sitting on the balcony out of the chambers.
I was here when there was instance where someone–it
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was a very unfortunate situation where someone was
hurt. It’s quite dangerous for the sergeant-at-arms
to manage the situation up there. So at this time
I’m asking that the sergeant-at-arms please clear the
balcony of all of the, um people who are here.
PROTESTOR: [interposing] [shouting
protests]
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: And then as soon
as that is done, then we’ll be able to continue with
the questions. I also would like to say that for the
last speaking and a half, it has been quiet in the
Chambers, and I’ve really appreciated that. So for
the people who chose not to stand up, I thank you.
So I could hear what they have to say, and again, I
look forward to hearing what everyone has to say when
it’s their turn to testify. If we could have quiet
for the gentlemen who are, and—and women who are in
the balcony, if you could depart quietly.
PROTESTOR: [interposing] [shouting
protests]
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: That would be a
blessing, and I would appreciate that. Okay. So, are
we—we’re all quiet now, and again, for anyone who
would like to testify there are slips of paper right
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COMMITTEE ON CONTRACTS 68
up here. You can just get one right at the sergeantat-arm’s desk, and fill it out and I look forward to
hearing you. But we’re going to wait and I would ask
the members of the Council to refrain as well from
speaking so we can have some quiet. Okay, Council
Member Lancman, I’ve got to say might be middle-age
muddle but could you ask your question again so we
can get back on track here? Thank you.
COUNCIL MEMBER LANCMAN: I will do—I will
do the best that I can. I am the elected
representative of the 24th Council District, and I
appreciate the opportunity that my constituents have
given me to speak on these issues, and like you as
witnesses, I will not be silenced by the Boycott,
Divestment, Sanction Movement. I want to thank you
for helping to frame the issue to explain for us,
indeed help our friends on the other side to
demonstrate for us by their actions and their words
how the BDS Movement is really just the latest in a
long history of antisemitism, discrimination and
efforts to stigmatize, delegitimize the Jewish people
and their opportunity to participate in the economy,
the social and academic life wherever they live. And
I particularly want to thank you, Brooke.
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CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: [interposing] I’m
sorry, Council Member–
COUNCIL MEMBER LANCMAN: [interposing] If
we could just close the door in the back, yeah.
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: –I’m going to
ask you to hang on one more second, and I apologize
for the delay. It’s just really hard to hear. So—
[audience background comments] So, I think as soon
as the door is closed, which I know the sergeant-atarms is trying to do, so we can continue on with the
people’s business in fashion where we can hear each
other. [audience background comments] And again, I
just want to reiterate that the purpose of this
hearing is for there to be a free exchange of ideas.
I appreciate everyone. [audience background
comments] Oh, I’m sorry. Are you wait ‘til they’re
quiet so I can be heard? Because I can’t be heard.
I can hardly hear myself. [audience background
comments] So, I’m just going to wait until.
[background comments] I’m sorry. I’m trying to
conduct a hearing, and I want to hear from everyone
when they—when it’s their time to testify. Thank you
so much. [background comments] You know, this is—
you know, I would ask the sergeant-at-arms– Thank
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you. [pause] [background comments] Again, I want to
thank the sergeants-at-arms for their efforts here
today. I—I have to confess I still can’t hear. So I
would ask that the sergeant-at-arms remove anyone
from this floor who’s making it difficult for us to
hear at this time. I would ask you to please use
your judgment in removing them. Someone seems to be
videotaping. I don’t know individuals who ae
talking. I—I really just want to continue with this
important dialogue.
COUNCIL MEMBER LANCMAN: And what I was
about to say [coughs]–but we do we have to keep that
door closed. Thank you—is how this hearing and the
conduct of the BDS advocates is a perfect
representation of what it is that we are hear to
trying to combat. That these individuals cannot
compete on their ideas, on their positions, and so
what they want to do is to shut down those who
disagree with them, to block speaker on–
PROTESTOR: [interposing] [shouting
protests]
COUNCIL MEMBER LANCMAN: Good job.
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: Sergeant at arms,
can you please remove the person who’s disrupting our
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COMMITTEE ON CONTRACTS 71
hearing and again, I just want to reiterate that I
would really love to hear from the people who don’t
love this resolution but I’d like to hear from them
at the appropriate time. Thank you.
COUNCIL MEMBER LANCMAN: And SO, there you
have it, folks. The Boycott, Divestment and Sanction
Movement we’re at large. I would like to ask you all
to—to speak, if you could in your areas of expertise
and Michael Miller in particular as—as one of the
leading figures in Jewish life here in New York City
on a—on a day-to-day on-the-ground level. [coughs]
Excuse me. The extent to which the BDS movement,
which is we all know and not barely even a pretense
of it—of it not being, um, a deeply anti-Semitic
movement, has contributed to the antisemitism that
has grown in New York City, which is reflected in the
significant increase in hate crimes against Jews, and
the extent to which the BDS Movement, of course,
doesn’t just target very precisely Israeli companies
doing business in Judeo Shamram (sp?)but Jews
generally because people don’t really make that
distinction.
PROTESTOR: [interposing] [shouting
protests] It’s a lie.
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CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: I’m so sorry.
Council Member Lancman, you were in the middle of
PROTESTOR: [interposing] [shouting
protests]
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: –almost getting
to the end of your question. So, there we go.
COUNCIL MEMBER LANCMAN: And I—I just–
PROTESTOR: [interposing] [shouting
protests]
COUNCIL MEMBER LANCMAN: I—I do want to
say, I—I understand to the BDS folks, I-I understand
how painful and disappoint it is for you to come to
the realization that you are anti-Semites, and that
you are joining a long history of Anti-Semite. It’s
painful I know, but I can tell you there have been
moments in my life where I’ve had to reflect on
whether the things that I’m doing or saying really
reflect my values. I’ve never crossed over to the
dark side to that extent, but I feel your pain.
PROTESTOR: [interposing] [shouting
protests]
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: I’m sorry. I—I—
I, um, question. I would leave it to the judgment of
the sergeant-at-arms, but to the extent that people
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COMMITTEE ON CONTRACTS 73
are holding press conferences to—for the sergeant-atarms who are talking to other council members. To
the extent that people are holding press–press
conferences in the Chambers while this is going on, I
just want to let you know how difficult that makes it
for us to hear. So I’d ask you to please not only
refrain from holding a press conference in the
Chambers. But if the sergeant-at-arms sees you
participating in a press conference in the Chambers
during this hearing, I would ask them to please
remove those people who are participating in the
press conference. It’s really distracting, and I’m
wanting to hear.
COUNCIL MEMBER LANDER: We know.
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: So Council
Member, could you continue?
MICHAEL MILLER: Yeah, so…
COUNCIL MEMBER LANDER: Go ahead.
MICHAEL MILLER: –just a—a—a brief
answer because there are no statistics that I’m aware
of. I turn to my colleague Evan Bernstein from the—
the ADL pertaining to the matter of whether there are
increasingly more anti-Jewish, anti-Semitic acts.
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PROTESTOR: [interposing] [shouting
protests]
MICHAEL MILLER: How—
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: [interposing] So
again, I would ask that anyone who feels the need to
talk in the Chambers to please take themselves
outside of the Chambers because while I am very
interested in hearing from you, I’m interested in
hearing from you at the appropriate time. We all
need to follow the rules because we can all be heard.
Unfortunately, while I wanted to go to the panel next
that people are having to leave. So I may have to go
out of order a little bit. So apologies, but we are
going to continue to hear Mr. Miller’s response.
MICHAEL MILLER: Okay, once again, just—
just briefly. Because clearly the BDS Movement has
had an impact. I think it’s had an impact here, you
know, attempt to intimidate all of us who are sitting
here and my colleagues who have had their testimony
interrupted and, of course, the ability of the City
Council to actually have a hearing on this. And
hearing is hearing from us, who are testifying as
opposed to hearing from those who are in the
audience. What’s been happening on campus, and I—I
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think that my—my colleagues have spoken to it
particularly Mr. Greenberg is really most troubling
and actually we have here and in the room. I’m not
sure if she’ll have that opportunity to testify, but
we have the Director of the Hillel in—on Hunter—
Hunter College campus, Alyssa Pollock, and she could
be speak most directly to the BDS impact on the
college campus, on the college students and how the
college students feel vulnerable. They’re coming to
college to get a BA, and MA, a PhD, not to engage in
a verbal fist fights with those with whom they may
disagree on Middle East issues, and to feel
threatened, physically threatened when they go to
class if—if they wear anything that smacks of Judaism
or an Israeli flag or any other kind of Israeli
paraphernalia. So the answer is yes. It’s
contributing to a climate, which has led no doubt to
an increase in anti-Semitic, anti-Jewish, anti-Israel
activity. I’ll turn now to my colleague Evan if he
has some additional statistics.
EVAN BERNSTEIN: Thank you, Michael. You
know I think it’s—it’s hard to—to—to put a direct
connection between the BDS Movement and actual antiSemitic incidents. We did have a 100% increase in
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COMMITTEE ON CONTRACTS 76
anti-Semitic assaults in New York last year.
Overall–
COUNCIL MEMBER LANCMAN: What was—what
was that number?
EVAN BERNSTEIN: 100% increase of antiSemitic assaults. Last year it was close to 200
anti-Semitic assaults.
COUNCIL MEMBER LANCMAN: In—in New York
City or nationally?
EVAN BERNSTEIN: New York—New York State.
The number of Anti-Semitic incidents, which includes
Swastikas drawings, et cetera were actually down last
year. One of the things that we’re seeing is—is also
really on campus. The—the concern for us with BDS
is—is it’s heart-to-mind approach. We have not seen
across the country, you know, a lot of BDS movements
that have actually been successful from a financial
standpoint clearly, but what they’re doing is, is
they’re giving a whole new generation of people this
question about Israel’s legitimacy and Israel’s right
to exist, and that’s something that could have very
long-term effects for—for the next generations of—of
leadership whether it’s in the City Council, the
State Legislative branches across the Unite States
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COMMITTEE ON CONTRACTS 77
and I think that these kinds of—of acts at BDS while
they are—are targeting the financial side of things
in targeting other and things like that, there’s—
there’s a heart and mind approach, and this a well
that could very, very deep and very, very impactful
long term.
BROOKE GOLDSTEIN: Um, I’d like to say
that—I’d like to say I do think there is a direct
connection, and there are many examples. At the
Lawfare Project we get calls almost every week from
students around the United States complaining of
harassment, complaining of First Amendment
violations, complaining of Title 6 violations, which
are rampant in every government funded school.
Councilman Lancman correctly mentioned that Jews are
targeted. Look how, for example the singer Matisyahu
was targeted. He is Jewish. He is not Israeli, and
the BDS Movement directly targeted him, and Spanish
officials for example to go over the BDS Movement
there for what was clearly discrimination against
someone because of their religion. And when we have
the BDS Movement chanting such as From the river to
the sea Palestine will be free, which is a genocidal
chant calling for the elimination of Jewish state.
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When they chant intifada, intifada, which is a call
for a violent uprising. When they attempt fundraise
to provide direct material support to a designated
terrorist group Hamas, as they did at Ruckers, which
is what the U.S. in Gaza and Baka did there, you have
a direct connection between the BDS Movement and not
just Anti-Semitism. Bit rampant violations of both
civil rights, and attempted violations of federal
material support for terrorism laws.
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: Alright, I just
want to–
COUNCIL MEMBER LANCMAN: [interposing]
Thank you.
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: –ask a quick
question actually, Mr. Miller, and that is do you
believe that the resolution as it’s written, and this
is just something that’s come up often, but as it’s
currently written, do you think it precludes freedom
of speech.
MICHAEL MILLER: Absolutely not. Um,
there is nothing about this risk. I—I know that, um,
Council Member Cohen and those and the drafters of
this resolution labored very hard to ensure that this
would not be violative of any Constitutional law or
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principle, and certainly not the—the principle of—of
freedom of speech. Um, as we have all said, it’s
just the opposite. For those of us who wish to be
supportive of Israel, we’re the ones whose free—whose
speech is frequently compromised and—and interrupted.
So, the answer is absolutely, and I—I commend the
drafters of this resolution led by Chairman Cohen to
Council Member Cohen to—for—for the manner in which
and the sensitivity in which they—they—they drafted
it and—and crafted it.
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: I—I just wanted
to ask you one other clarifying question just because
it was raised earlier. Does the draft, does it—does
the resolution, and it’s A version as it’s currently
written have anything to do with the recent New York
State elected official actions?
MICHAEL MILLER: To the best of my
knowledge the answer is no. There—and it raised
before by Assembly Member Barron. There is
absolutely no connection, and also by Assembly
Member, um, Levine. Thank you. By Senator Levine.
There’s absolutely no connection between what the
City Council resolution references and the Executive
Order issued by Governor Cuomo or the legislation
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COMMITTEE ON CONTRACTS 80
passed in the New York State Senate or the
legislation considered within New York State
Assembly, totally independent. In fact, if you take
a look word for word between the two resolutions,
there’s very little comparison between—between the
two.
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: And I can
understand why there might have been confusion but
this–
MICHAEL MILLER: [interposing] Of course,
it was set. (sic)
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: –is an A version
that I just want to clarify that’s what we’re
discussing today is the A version.
MICHAEL MILLER: Correct, indeed.
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: Okay, thank you.
MICHAEL MILLER: And thank you for that.
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: Council Member
Kallos, you have some questions.
COUNCIL MEMBER KALLOS: Thank you.
Council Member Ben Kallos. I represent the Upper
East Side, East Midtown, East Harlem and Roosevelt
Island. I’m Vice Chair of the Jewish Caucus. Much
of my family died in concentration camps during the
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COMMITTEE ON CONTRACTS 81
Holocaust. Some of us survived and made it to the
United States, some to Sweden, and many to Israel. I
love my family in Israel. I love Israel. I love the
United States, and our city, and its Human Rights
Law, which protects against discrimination based on
ethnicity or nation of origin. I will stand against
discrimination against anyone based on their
ethnicity or nation of origin. I’m deeply saddened
to see personal attacks in our communities, on
college campuses and my brothers Alpha Epsilon Psi
and even here in the City Council Chambers. For
those of you watching on TV, filming and
photographing, this is what it means to be Jewish and
to support Israel here in New York City in 2016. I’m
proud to join Council Member Andrew Cohen and Chair
Helen Rosenthal as co-prime sponsor of Introduction
1058-A, and urge Contract Committee members to vote
in support of this resolution, and just panel—
questions for the panel, which I believe have already
been covered. It just is—is what we’ve seen today
indicative of what Jewish people and those who
support Israel see in their lives everyday?
MICHAEL MILLER: I tried to indicate this
earlier. Personally, and—and one of my colleagues
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COMMITTEE ON CONTRACTS 82
said to me earlier here, you know, this is what I see
all the time when we had a nice office on Third
Avenue, but I do hear from—from our Jewish young men
and women on college campuses especially your
fraternity brothers, Andy Boris, who I see regularly
because I talk to many Phi people, and what I said
before is true. There have been physical attacks on
Jewish kids. It’s a very serious problem, and what
you saw here today the kind of incitement that we saw
here today leads and only aggravates what has become
a terrible situation for young Jewish kids on
campuses. And I think—I commend you for doing what
you’re doing, and I think it’s very important for you
to focus on the fact that what you witnessed
personally here today our kids have to put up with
everyday on college campuses and worse. So, thank
you for that question.
COUNCIL MEMBER KALLOS: Thank you.
BROOKE GOLDSTEIN: Can I make a short
comment? It’s not just so-called pro-Israel
advocacy—
SERGEANT-AT-ARMS: [interposing] No, you
can’t be that close. (sic)
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COMMITTEE ON CONTRACTS 83
BROOKE GOLDSTEIN: –that is being shut
down, it’s also pro-Arab advocacy. For example, I
risked my life and I spent almost two years in and
out of Nablus Ramallah Tolcom (sp?). I was in
Palestine authority territory. It’s where I
interviewed families who were victimized by Hamas. I
made a movie about the recruitment of innocent Muslim
children as suicide bombers. It was given an award
by the United Nations for best documentary film, and
when I screened this movie to advocate for the human
rights of Palestinian Arab children who were being
abused at the hands of Hamas and Al-Aqsa and the PLO,
the same advocates tried to shut down that speech
because it is an inconvenient truth for them. They
do not want us to hear about the abuses occurring
against innocent Palestinian Arab children at the
hands of the Palestinian authority.
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: Okay. Thank you
very much. I know—thank you so much for your time
and for your patience this morning very much. On
behalf of the Council, again I want to apologize to
you for any interruptions. I very much appreciate
your willingness to come here today, and share your
expertise, and your experiences and so thank you.
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COMMITTEE ON CONTRACTS 84
Thank you very much. We’re—unfortunately, it’s 10 to
12:00, and we haven’t had a chance yet to hear from
those who are opposed to the resolution, but now we
will be calling up that panel, and as—and I just want
to remind people that, you know, we’re—we are here to
hear all points of view. Unfortunately, sometimes
when there are disruptions, and the room is cleared,
unfortunately some people then lose the opportunity
to testify, but–
PROTESTOR: [interposing] [shouting
protests]
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: I’m sorry. I’m
going to ask that someone departs. So, I’m not going
to call up Linda Sansour, Tahi Perzala (sp?), Rahika
Sanoff (sp?), Imam Talib, Abdum Rashid, and Adud
Salim Muza (sp?), and if I’ve mispronounced anyone’s
name I apologize in advance. Please when you
introduce yourselves pronounce your name correctly
for the record, and we have your sign-in slips as
well. [background comments] I’m to ask you.
Sometimes we just go left to right or right to left.
If anyone has to leave early please go first, and
there—again, we very much appreciate your coming
today. Do we have a chair for this individual?
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COMMITTEE ON CONTRACTS 85
Okay, great. Thank you very much. Again, if we
could have quiet in the Chambers, and sir—[background
comments] Sir, I’m going to ask from my left. So if
you could please start. Introduce yourself again.
Thank you.
ABDUS-SALAAM-MUSA: I—I shall, if you
give me a chance. Okay, my name is Jabin Imam AbdusSalaam Musa. I’m representing the Islamic Circle of
North America. The Islamic Circle of North America
demands repealing of unconstitutional efforts to
censor and blacklist citizen in businesses engaged in
BDS against injustice. The Islamic Circle of North
America calls on New York City Council to reject
Resolution 1058 and the limitations it places on free
speech and peaceful civil protests. The resolution
unfairly targets the peaceful and legitimate Boycott,
Divestment Sanctions movement against Israel about
mentioning that Israel has violated more
international laws and united resolutions—United
Nations resolutions that any other nation in history.
Economic protests are fundamental to the
establishment of this nation, and our cornerstone of
free speech. This nation was founded out of an
economic protest: The Boston Tea Party. It would be
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COMMITTEE ON CONTRACTS 86
hypocritical for the City Council to now ban forms of
peaceful economic protest under the guise of
protecting the friendly nations. At this time, the
great polarization in our nation, free speech must be
protected at all costs less we become one of the
oppressive regimes that we see around the world. Any
reflections—any restrictions on BDS is against the
American Constitution and violates the civil rights
of freedom of speech, expression and association of
the constituents of our great city. Our city should
not be punishing political speech. Boycotts have had
a long history of being used as a tool for social
justice movements, and the movement for the
Palestinian rights should not be singled out for
censorship. This sets a dangerous precedent of a
politically motivated McCarthy Blacklist. ICNA hopes
that the City Council will reaffirm the fundamental
rights of its constituents to engage in activism for
social justice, and does not blacklist activists for
their political thoughts, speech and association as
guaranteed by our Constitution and reject this
resolution. Thank you.
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COMMITTEE ON CONTRACTS 87
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: Thank you. Oh,
I’m sorry. I want to recognize Council Member
Garodnick who has joined us. Thank you. Please.
RADHIKA SAINATH: Hi. Thank you for
listening to my testimony today. My name is Radhika
Sainath, and I’m a staff attorney at Palestine Legal.
Palestine Legal is a not-for-profit organization
dedicated to protecting the civil and constitutional
rights of people in the United States who speak out
for Palestinian freedom. I present testimony today
to oppose Proposed Resolution 1058, which would
condemn non-violent Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions
Campaign for Palestinian freedom. Palestine Legal
exists because people in this country who are vocal
about Palestinian freedom routinely experience the
suppression of their Frist Amendment right to speak
out. This includes the right to participate in and
advocate for boycotts, which the Supreme Court
recognized as First Amendment protected in 1982. Our
work includes documenting incidents of suppression,
what we call the Palestine exception to free speech
where people in the United States are censored,
bullied, harassed, blacklisted or otherwise punished
for taking a principled stance for human rights,
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COMMITTEE ON CONTRACTS 88
whether by advocating for the tactic of boycotts
specifically or for Palestinian freedom generally.
At Palestine Legal we field calls from students,
professors and other community members asking us
questions about their rights to hand out flyers, to
engage in mock theater, mock street theater, and say
host a Policy Poet at their school. We also receive
calls from those who are subjected to severe
harassment because of their speech critical of Israel
policy. Since 2014 we’ve responded to nearly 600
incidents of suppression. 126 of these happened in
the State of New York, and again, that’s just the tip
of the iceberg. That’s just what we as an
organization have responded to. We’re a small
organization. I’m the only attorney in New York
City. So this is what people are calling up about
and I want to just give you an example of what I mean
when I’m talking about suppression or harassment when
I use these words. In earlier testimony today, we
heard some myths and false accusations circulated
regarding NYU students, and specifically New York
University students for Justice in Palestine, and I
just want to talk. And give you an example of some
very serious death threats and rape threats that they
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experienced just weeks after Governor Cuomo signed
into law his executive order, sorry, blacklisting
organizations that support the tactic of boycotts and
divestment and sanctions. And I’m just going to
read to you the email that the Students for Justice
in the Palestine Chapter received at NYU, and it
says, I quote, “We will rape your organization
leaving no holes.” And that the group was, “Swimming
in a campus fish bowl” and that there “No safe spaces
any more.” Again, this a few weeks after Govern
Cuomo signed into—into—signed his Executive Order
blacklisting organizations that promote BDS, and this
after articles circulated a hoax that SJP was engaged
in anti-Semitic activity, which was proven false.
So, again, speaking to human rights activists it
becomes clear that condemnation from officials
including legislation and resolutions by elected
officials, can have a terrible killing effect on
protected speech, and often leads to the kind of
harassment, bullying and even raising death threats
faced by the students at NYU and elsewhere. By
falsely equating BDS campaigns with anti-Semitism and
by failing to acknowledge that BDS campaigns are a
non-violent tactic to which people of conscience
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throughout the world can effectively oppose Israel’s
violations of international law. The City Council is
laying the groundwork for the suppression of
Palestine rights activism and the environment that
welcomes threats against Palestinian Human Rights
activists. Out lawmakers should be in the business
of advancing human rights, not condemning those of us
who choose to exercise our constitutional rights to
engage in such advocacy. Because this resolution
will kill Constitutionally protected speech, and
invite further suppression of social justice
activists, I urge you to withdraw it. Thank you.
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: Thank you.
Linda.
LINDA SARSOUR: For the record, I want to
say that today at the New York City Council I was
humiliated with colleagues Rarumda Bandal (sp?)
After following your rules sitting upstairs waiting
for me to be testified was asked to leave the
building until people in this Chambers knew who we
were and why we were here, we were asked to come
back. So I want that on the record. My name is
Linda Sarsour, and I am a proud apologetically
Palestinian-American. I’m a non-profit leader, a
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civil rights activist and a pure bred New Yorker. I
stand up for the justice of all people. I sit here
before you both disappointed and outraged that this
hearing is rooted in suppressing our fundamental
right to free speech protected by U.S. Constitution.
As the New York City Council body, you were elected
to work on and legislate issues that impact New
Yorkers. As a city and a country we are in crisis.
We are in a divided nation, political rhetoric and
hatred creating wedges between communities. The fact
that members of the New York City Council want to
engage on a divisive issue that has no direct impact
on New Yorkers at a time where they should be bring
New Yorkers together is in my opinion irresponsible.
Resolution 1058-A is also based of propaganda and
misinformation. It is your duty to provide your
colleagues and New Yorkers with facts. BDS is a
Palestinians led non-violent movement to hold Israel
accountable to the human rights violations against
Palestinians. It is a movement. It is not an
organization. It is described in the resolution as
one monolithic singular entity, which is false. It’s
a global movement that has engaged institutions,
people of faith, students, businesses, entertainers
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and activists in a call for justice and equality for
Palestinians. The Resolution also claims that with a
broad brush that BDS traffics anti-Semitism when it
clearly, based on principle has condemned all forms
of discrimination and racism including Islamophobia
and anti-Semitism. It clams that BDS does not
support a two-state solution when, in fact, BDS as a
call to action does not take any position in relation
to this matter. The resolution also conveniently
erases the many Jewish-Americans and those in the
Diaspora who support BDS as well as congregations and
academic institutions worldwide. Nobel Peace Prize
winner Archbishop Emeritus Desmond Tutu said, “In
South Africa we could not have achieved our democracy
without the help of people around the world who
through the use of non-violent means such as boycotts
and divestments encourage governments and other
corporate actors to reverse decades long support to
the Apartheid Regime. The same issue of inequality
and injustice today motivates the divestment movement
trying to end Israel’s decades long occupation of
Palestinian territory and the unfair and pre-judicial
treatment of the Palestinian people by the Israeli
government ruling over them.” End quote. Would you
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have been against Archbishop Desmond Tutu, Nelson
Mandela and the call to end South African Apartheid,
the discrimination and humiliation of South Africans?
Whatever happened to I don’t agree with what you have
to say, but I’ll defend to the death your right to
say it? What is more concerning is while this is a
non-binding resolution, why is it being discussed in
the Committee on Contracts? Does that mean there
will be an unpublished secrete blacklist for
organizations who engage, decide to engage or their
leaders support BDS that may impact who gets city
discretionary funding. Whether that was the original
intent or not, this could have a killing effect on
New Yorkers deserving of those funds. It’s like when
the New York Police Department says surveillance is
legal, but that it has killing impacts on our free
speech here in New York City. I’m not here to
convince anyone to support BDS. In fact, feel free
to disagree with BDS as a tactic, but as an—as an
American and as a New Yorker, I hope we can agree on
the fundamental rights afforded to us by our
Constitution, freedom of speech first and foremost
and freedom of people’s organizing and open
democracy. If you are a New York City Council Member
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who votes in support of this resolution, I ask you
this question: Do you want to look back and see
yourself on the wrong side of history? I hope you
reconsider, and I will say this, I am—I was already
outraged when I got here, but I will not allow myself
as a New Yorker to sit in this room and allow you to
stay silent when people broad brush people in this
room, many of whom that you know, and work and
respect and know our work and allow people to call us
anti-Semites when you know that some of us are the
first people to stand up for our Jewish sisters and
brothers. We are on the front lines willing to put
our bodies and get arrested on the line for our
Jewish sisters and brothers, and the fact that you
allow known Islamophobes called out by the Southern
Law-Poverty Law Center to give them a platform here.
Islamomphobia when I know you’re—you’re considering
this resolution against Islamophobia, but gave
Islamophobes a platform here, I am besides myself
today. So I hope you reconsider, and you bring us to
a point where we can be in a hearing here talking
about an issue that unites New Yorkers, and I’m
outraged that it’s taking us so long to get police
reform legislation to the floor for a hearing or for
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a vote, but we can be real quick in here to come and
talk about the State of Israel. I am appalled as a
New Yorker.
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: Thank you for
your testimony. Just to clear up any misconceptions.
So the way the Council works is that when the
original resolution—-the way that it was written had
language having to do with contracts. This aids
(sic) and hence it was sent to the Contracts
Committee. The current version very specifically and
consciously has no language referring to contracts
whatsoever. There is no—hence there’s no reading
between the lines. There’s no effort for it to have
anything to do with procurements, which is the
responsibility of the Contracts. It’s sitting here
now in it’s A version, which no longer has to do with
contracts. So I want to dispel that myth before it
begins. Thank you again for your testimony. Please.
IMAM TALIB ABDUR-RASHID: Good afternoon.
[speaking foreign language] I’m Imam Imam Talib
Abdur-Rashid, Imam of the Mosque of Islamic
Brotherhood, a 49-year-old African-American Sunni
Muslim congregation located in Harlem. Today,
though, I’m here in my capacity as a special
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representative of the Majlis Ashura also known
Islamic Leadership Council of New York. I currently
serve as the special representative of that body, and
that is of restoring to justice, civil and human
rights. The Majlis Ashura of New York Represents
over 80 mosques and Muslim organizations here in New
York City. Imams, board presidents, activists and
youth directors leading women, men and youth of
communities across the metropolitan area. We of the
Majlis are here to express our opposition to those
calling for punishment through condemnation of the
global BDS Israel movement and its supporters and
participants here in New York. Those wishing to
condemn that movement have spoken with passion and
eloquence today. We support it, hope to do the same,
an expression of our ethical obligation a Muslims to
engage others mutually affected by the outcome of the
decision. We do so in a quiet (sic) spirit of Shura
on mutual consultation as New Yorkers. We intend to
address the issue at hand directly to the point,
particularly speaking through the power in the best
democratic tradition. We of the Islamic Leadership
Council of New York commend the City Council for
doing what the respective Governor of our state
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failed to do before issuing his executive order,
which is to hold hearings in order to listen and
evaluate the varying points of view regarding the BDS
Israel Movement. Before passing judgment on it, and
deeming it and those who support it worthy of
condemnation and punishment. The democratic process
that governs all people in this land demands better,
as the members of this august body has demonstrated,
and we thank you for that. We of the Islamic
Leadership Council of New York recognize that
ultimately the issues raised here today will be
addressed most appropriately in buildings north of
City Hall, the United Nations General Assembly.
Undoubtedly, the debate there, which has been
occurring for decades will continue just five days
from now, but since we all live as neighbors in an
international city, and justice demands truth, we as
Muslims are compelled to express our opinions and
views as other have already done and will yet do
today. It is important, though, that we understand
the BDS Israel Movement for what it is and what it is
not. Whether we agree or disagree on its utility, we
must be able to see past any mischaracterizations of
that that are being promulgated by some folks for
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political reasons. In an examination of the
character of the BDS Israel Movement we see some of
its opponents using tactics that other people use in
modern American with regards to racism. Because
racism has been publicly exposed as the wrong that it
is, there are those who characterize it in such a
manner as to divert criticism directly towards it,
and those who support it framing racism in a way that
disguises its true nature. Similarly, we must
examine the framing of BDS Israel by some who would
use the same strategy. Because if we allow BDS
Israel to be framed as anti-Semitic, and by the way
are presumed that by anti-Semitic, as we’ve heard
several times here today, that you mean anti-Jewish,
anti-Semitic as opposed as anti-Arab anti-Semitic
because the Arabs are just as Semitic a people as
Jews. But if we allow BDS Israel to be framed as
anti-Jewish anti-Semitic then it will be and should
be rejected because anti-Semitism of any kind is
wrong. If we allow BDS Israel to be framed as hate
speech then it will be and should be censored because
hate speech is wrong. If we allow BDS Israel to be
framed as an effort to delegitimize Israel, then many
good people will deem it worthy of an unquestioning
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condemnation because when a democracy is viewed as
being under attack, then other democracies will move
to defend it. We of the Majlis Ashura along with our
partners and allies condemn resolution 1058-A’s
proposed condemnation of BDS Israel. We view it as
the first step towards a replication on the city
level of the arguably unconstitutional policies
adopted by our state government with regards to that
strategy of the social justice movement. It is our
intention to speak the truth as we understand it, and
in the words of Almighty God in the Quran to do so
speaking directly to the point. Further, we do so in
the spirit of God’s commandment as found in the Torah
of our Old Testament in the Book of Isaiah, Come, let
us reason, or come let us settle this matter
together. First, from the point of view of the
Islamic Leadership Council, the wording of Resolution
1058-A contains language, which is misleading. It
calls for condemnation of and I quote, “All efforts
to delegitimize the State of Israel and the global
movement to Boycott, Divest from and Sanction the
people of Israel.” End of quote. We say that the
opening and, therefore, framing declaration of the
resolution is inaccurate and again misleading. The
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purpose of the BDS Israel Movement is not to
delegitimize the State of Israel, contrary to what
many people have said here today. Nor, to victimize
its people yet again. Rather, its openly stated
international, global raised introduction since the
year 2005 has been and is to urge, quote “Various
forms of non-violent punitive measures against Israel
until it complies with the precepts of international
law.” End of quote. BDS Israel defines its stated
goal, and we’ve heard them here today is in the State
of Israel’s occupation of our Arab lands, recognition
of the fundament rights of the Arab-Palestinian
citizens of Israel for fully equality, and
respecting, protecting and promoting the rights of
Palestinian refugees to return to their homes and
properties as stipulated in U.N. Resolution 194. In
today’s world of violent strife and acts of terrorism
committed by individuals, groups and governments
seeking either to preserve the status quo or oppose
it, the BDS Movement in all of its forms and
manifestation is an earnest effort to effect social
change through protest divestment as an act of
economic shareholder activism. We of the Islamic
Leadership Council stand for justice and we support
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and have engaged in acts of protest throughout the
City of New York for decades whenever we’ve deemed it
necessary because of the existence or occurrence of
an injustice. We also oppose violent extremism
whether individual groups or states commit them. In
the immediate past we publicly declared this right on
the steps of this building, right here at City Hall.
Therefore, we support the BDS Israel Movement as
viable authentic and legitimate means of non-violent
resistance or struggle in a matter demanding justice.
Now, with your permission I’m going to summarize,
okay, because, you know, as we’ve been here two hours
and 15 minutes and with the exception of Charles
Barron, this is the whole opposition here,
interruptions notwithstanding. So just to try to
summarize. Criticism—criticizing or opposing a
nation’s policies is not equivalent to seeking the
delegitimization of the nation itself. We live in
America, and we’ve had countless of that time and
time again. In America, dissent is woven in
principle and law into the very fabric of our way of
life, and as others have pointed out, the Supreme
Court held an NAACP v. Claiborne Hardware that states
have no right to prohibit peaceful political
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activity. So when we get into this whole area of
states condemning and punishing people because of
their political activity, then we’re on unethically
dangerous grounds for American democracy. In the
United States of America freedom of expression is a
right, and there’s been a lot of declarations here
today directed against BDS Israel, but boycott,
divestment and sanction is a legitimate American
tradition. In 1930, when Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
was just being born, and two decades before the
Montgomery buys boycott, in the City of Chicago, a
group of religious leaders, a Muslim community
activist named Sufi Abdul Hamid and leaders from the
Black Church instituted the tactic of economic
boycott as a means for seeking redress to their
grievances regarding racist hiring practices. Many
other people have mentioned South Africa here. So
the only thing that will save our back is that when
the BDS South Africa Movement was launched, the white
South African people opposed it. The South African
government opposed it. Groups and organizations
opposed it. The President of the United States
Ronald Reagan opposed it, but eventually that
movement prevailed and the result was a non-violent
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resolution to what could have been the bloodiest race
war in the history of humanity. The tactics of BDS
have been used for years to pressure U.S. companies
to stop illegally profiting from foreign occupations.
Skipping the details I’m just going to mention that
on a global level, BDS in previous decades targeted
South Africa’s occupation of Libya, Indonesia’s
occupation of East Timor. Right now in Europe
there’s a BDS movement directed against Morocco for
its occupation of the western Sahara. Fifteen years
ago here in America, Taco Bell was the target of a
BDS movement because of its treatment of its workers.
Right now, there’s an Environmental Justice BDS
movement that is in effect. So BDS Israel is not
just a movement directed in isolation from these
other movements designed to bring about justice. So,
and lastly I’ll just say that as others have said,
there’s a wide variety—if I had more time I would
give you the details—there’s a wide variety of
religious groups right here in America and around the
world who have signed onto the BDS Movement,
Christian groups long on this, Jewish groups long on
this, and some of them, some of them, and I’ll just
the Quakers for a quick example. Because the Quakers
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they don’t do the things that people have been
criticizing here today. They have their own version
of BDS, but under the wording of this resolution, and
under the wording of Governor Cuomo’s executive
order, even the Quakers would be condemned. So I
want to, you know, again thank you. To be very
honest, I’ve debated as to whether I should even
distribute copies of my statement, but because of my
respect for the City Council– and I’ve been
testifying here for two decades on various matters—I
will give you copies of our statement from the
Islamic Leadership Council. We pray that you will
read it, and evaluate it, and we thank you for your
time.
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: Thank you so much
and only because you raised it, I do want to thank
the people who are remaining the Chambers for not
interrupting any of the speakers so we could really
hear what you have to say, and it was my pleasure to
give the most recent speaker a lot of additional
time. Thank you very much. If you could continue.
Introduce yourself, please.
PAUL GAZZOLA: Good afternoon, everybody.
My name is Paul Gazzola and I’m with the American
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Muslims for Palestine. We are a not-for-profit that
is dedicated to educating the American public about
Palestine and its heritage and its cultural heritage
and its people. I’m here today in opposition to the
proposed resolution, but before I say that I wanted
to interject that I believe it Ghandi who once said
that first they ignore you, then they laugh at you,
then they fight you, then you win. And for the
longest period of time since the Palestinian civil
society made its call in 2005 to boycott, divest and
sanction the State of Israel, we were ignored
because– And as a matter of fact, on campus we were
told that BDS was not an accepted tactic by the
Zionists, by the pro-Israel group, and then they
laughed at us when we proposed resolutions on campus
to divest our university funds from companies,
American companies profiting off of the Israeli
occupation. And now, they’re fighting us now. You
have the heads of every major pro-Israel group in New
York City attending this hearing because of their
concern with this movement, and that just shows you
what the next step will be. Then we will win.
Whether the New York City Council likes it or not, we
will win. I’m here to also look at the proposed
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resolution in its entirety, and I want to take the
time to look at the wording of this resolution. Some
of the things that were said in this resolution
clearly indicate that it might not even have been one
of the City Council members on this panel that even
drafted it. It might have been somebody from outside
that gave it to them, and let them author it on
behalf—on their behalf.
The first whereas, the global Boycott,
Divestment Sanctions Movement is a campaign seeking
to exclude the Israeli people from the economic,
cultural and academic life of humanity. I mean any
person with a sane mind can look at this statement
and look at to exclude the Israeli people from
economic, cultural and economic life of humanity.
What does that even mean exactly? Does that mean
that the BDS seeks to exclude Israelis from life?
What does that even mean? There’s no—there’s no
indication of what that even means. The first thing
that—that it says. Then you have a resolution. In
the first paragraph not even before with a whereas, a
resolution condemning all efforts to delegitimize the
State of Israel and the global movement to boycott,
divest, sanction the people of Israel. What
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delegitimize even mean? Does delegitimize mean
criticizing the occupation? Does delegitimize mean
criticizing apartheid? Does delegitimizing mean
taking the critical approach to Israel’s state
policy? Because if that’s what delegitimization
means, then you can call me a delegitimizer. I will
always criticize Israel’s occupation of the
Palestinians. Occupation, apartheid, ethnic
cleaning, those are truly illegitimate. Those are
the illegitimate things that must be criticized, and
we will stand here no what New York City Council does
or says to do that, and it shows more. It says more
about Israel that they’re afraid of this BDS
Movement. They’re afraid of being held accountable
to international law. They’re afraid of being held
to an international norm of standards for human
dignity and rights. It says more about Israel than
it does say about the BDS Movement.
Second, I want to take a look at the
other statement that was placed in this, which is,
“Whereas, the global BDS Movement targets Israel and
only Israel while ignoring the world’s myriad
despotic regimes.” You know, this argument was made
so many times on campus. But is it the Palestinian
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people’s responsibility to boycott, divest and
sanction regimes around the world? Is it the
Palestinian people’s responsibility to issue a
condemnation of every single despotic regime around
the world? Imagine—imagine gong to the Syrian people
now and saying why are you guys just focusing on alAssad? Why don’t you guys focus on what’s happening
in India? Why don’t you guys focus on what’s
happening in Africa? What kind of dehumanization of
the Palestinian people and their struggle is
that? On top of that we just heard a panel just
before us talk about the special relationship that
the Unites States has with Israel. Over and over
again talking about the strategic alliance, the
economic cooperation, the—the academic
cooperation, the deep rooted connection
between Israel and the United States, and that is
precisely the reason why we as Americans standing in
this hall reject our City Council’s condemnation of
those who oppose Israel’s human rights violations of
Palestinians. It is precisely because of this
relationship, this special relationship that we stand
here and say that as American citizens we want to
know, we want to hold accountable those institutions
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that use our money, our tax dollars, the profits from
our purchases to make more money off of the backs our
of our Palestinian brothers and sisters. In another
whereas, Israel is far and away the most democratic
and open society in the Middle East with well
established rights for religious minorities, women
and LGBT citizens and far exceed those of any other
nation or region. Does that bring any attention to
the fact that Israel has in its law more than 50
discriminator laws against the Palestinians living
here. Does that take into account the LGBT
Palestinian citizens are not treated as LGBT
citizens? They’re treated as Palestinian LGBT
citizens, or are still treated like third or fourth
class citizens. Does that sound like the most
democratic state in the world to you? Whereas, the
global BDS Movement does not recognize the right of
the Jewish people to a national self-determination?
Please indicate to me, show me where somebody in the
BDS Movement or a leader in the BDS Movement from the
Palestinian civil society or—or the Palestinian civil
society itself mentions that. I have no idea how a
New York City Council committee can put through a
resolution that is founded on false statements, that
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COMMITTEE ON CONTRACTS 110
is founded on propaganda, that is meant to
disenfranchise and to demonize a community that is
working so hard for social justice in the United
States and around the world.
Finally, and this one for me is just
absurd. Whereas, university-based BDS efforts
violate the core goals of the university and global
cultural development, which thrive on a free and open
exchange and debate? We just heard four panelists
talk about the history of BDS Movements on campus.
We’ve just heard panelists talk about BDS of South
African Apartheid Regime. We’ve heard panelists talk
about the BDS of Darfur, and—and the prison divest
campaigns that are happening, which just happened
here at Columbia. We’re—we’re talking about so many
divestment campaigns, how could you ever mention or
say in a resolution sponsored by the—by the City
Council that says that BDS efforts violate the core
goals of the university? I don’t know which
university you attended, but any university that I
attend those are a part of the core goals or engaging
students, allowing them to be politically involved
and engage and—and empowering them to take action
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against regimes such as the Apartheid State of
Israel. And finally—
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: Thank you.
PAUL GAZZOLA: I’m sorry. I’m going to
finish this here quickly. Finally, whereas, the city
of New York has the largest population of Jewish
residents in the nation and is home to the largest
Jewish community outside of Israel, now, therefore,
be it resolved and then, of course, the condemnation
occurs. You know, I think it’s—it’s—I want to make
sure this is on the record, that those—I would say
80% of those who interrupted today and were
passionate about their position were Jewish citizens
of New York City. There is no way possible that
anyone can claim that this is a movement of—of antiSemitic haters or bigots. There is no way anyone can
claim that this is a movement seeking to
delegitimize the Jewish people or their aspirations
in any way, shape or form when, in fact, you have the
entire audience here of Jewish heritage, and those
who participated in the protest were of Jewish
heritage. And those who are speaking and advocating
loudly and expressing their concern so—so
passionately of Jewish heritage there’s no way that
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some people in the city can claim full authority or
full representation of their Jewish community and say
that this the Jewish position. Three is no way that
should be accepted especially as a New York City
Council resolution. Thank you.
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: Thank you very
much, and I want to welcome Council Members
Greenfield and Treyger and the—Levin, and with that,
do you want to ask questions or no you’re just saying
hi? Okay, a couple of people what to ask questions.
We’re going to start with Council Member Lancman.
COUNCIL MEMBER LANCMAN: [pause] Thank
you. [coughs] Good afternoon. Let’s start where we
can find common agreement, and that is that the words
that are used matter, and racist, bigoted,
Xenophobic, anti-Semitic, Islamophobic words can have
very serious consequences. In fact, just last week I
was at the funeral of a Muslim woman who was murdered
in my district, my constituent Nazma Khanham, who
although it hasn’t been declared it hasn’t been
declared a hate crime, we are deeply suspicious that
it was, and it would be foolish [coughs] of us if we
were to ignore the atmosphere of xenophobia and
Islamophobia that is being propagated particularly at
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the presidential campaign level. So, part of what
the Council does, as you all know. You probably all
testified before the Council many, many times, is
sometimes we pass bills, and sometimes we pass
resolutions that express the sentiment of the
Council, and very often, and particularly this
Council, being a proudly progressive Council, we take
stands against racism and sexism and homophobia and
Islamophobia, et cetera. But I, you know, the irony
of somebody testifying against an anti-BDS resolution
with the slogan I don’t agree with what you say, but
I’ll defend to the death your right to say it, is
just mind boggling to me because at the heart of the
BDS Movement, particularly as it relates to cultural,
social, academic boycotts, is the suppression of
viewpoints and speech particularly on college campus,
but not exclusively. People who have pro-Israel—a
pro-Israel viewpoints being shouted down, and being
prevented from speaking or Jewish students who are
excluding attainment, being prevented from speaking
or articulating their views. That, too, is the BDS
Movement. I also hear the phrase a lot from his
panel that the BDS Movement is non-violent, as if
non-violence is enough to exclude any speech movement
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that is discriminatory. In New York State we have
laws against discriminatory conduct that is nonviolent. You cannot deny someone employment based on
their race or national origin. You cannot deny
someone public accommodations. You cannot deny
someone housing, et cetera, et cetera, and including
in New York State you cannot initiate a boycott or
conduct a boycott against someone because of their
national origin among other categories. So the fact
that that conduct does not rise to the level of
violence, does not mean that it is not both abhoric
and illegal. So I—our views on the Israel
Palestinian issue are diametrically opposed, and some
of us have shared those views on Twitter and other
forms. So, I’m not going to do that today, but as a
legal matter and—and I’m sorry, ma’am, I don’t
remember your testimony so I don’t–
RADHIKA SAINATH: Sainath. (sic)
COUNCIL MEMBER LANCMAN: You’re from
Legal Palestine.
RADHIKA SAINATH: Palestine Legal.
COUNCIL MEMBER LANCMAN: Palestine Legal.
I’m sorry. Reference was made by you and I think
another panelist to—to the Claiborne case, which is a
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Supreme Court case decided in 1982, which upheld or
rather prevented a tort claim against the NWAACP for
conducting a boycott. But I would like you to
recognize that on the record or correct me if I’m
wrong that 10 years after that case, the Second
Circuit had the opportunity to examine New York
State’s Anti-Boycott Law in the case of Jews for
Jesus v. JCRC ironically, and it upheld New York
State’s Anti-Boycott Law because like conducts or
speech that, or speech that results in conduct, that
discriminates based on race, religion, national
origin, employment, housing you name it, that also
includes boycotts, and it’s appearing with economic
activity because of someone’s national original. And
that is what—speaking for myself—that is what the BDS
Movement is. It identifies people of a national
origin, Israel, in point of fact and I would be
surprised if it this panel of very capable,
intelligent, experienced people would deny. It has
often, very often expressed itself beyond Israeli,
but just Jews generally. But can you please
recognize or correct me if I’m wrong that in New York
State we have a law that prohibited—prohibits
boycotting base on national origin [coughs] and that
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law has been upheld by the Second United States Court
of Appeals for the Second Circuit, one level below
the Supreme Court after the Supreme Court’s decision
in Claiborne.
RADHIKA SAINATH: I’d be happy to correct
you. So, BDS is a tactic. It does not target
individuals based on their national origin. It
targets organizations based or companies based on
their conduct. So, for example, you heard testimony
today from the entire—you have BDS campaigns on
college campuses urging their—their universities to
divest from companies such as for example
Caterpillar—Caterpillar Bulldozer, which is an
American company, which is used by the Israeli army
to bulldoze Palestinian homes. So that would be an
example of—of—of a divestment tactic. It is—it does
not target individuals because of their national
origin again so–
COUNCIL MEMBER LANCMAN: [interposing] But
it would—but it would also be—but it’s also a
divestment tactic to not invite or—or block a speaker
from an Israeli university not located anywhere in
what we would call the West Bank from speaking. So,
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it—it covers lots of and lots of things, and I don’t
want to—listen–
RADHIKA SAINATH: [interposing] I mean I
don’t, you know, I don’t want to waste everyone’s
time with it.
COUNCIL MEMBER LANCMAN: Yeah.
RADHIKA SAINATH: I would—I would just
say one thing. So, you know, you’re saying a lot of—
of—making a lot of statements that aren’t based on
any actual facts, and I really do recommend—I mean I
know the resolution doesn’t actually have any
footnote. So I’m not sure where—where this—where
these statements are even coming from. I do suggest
that you go–
COUNCIL MEMBER LANCMAN: [interposing]

Our—our—I’m sorry, are Israeli—are Israeli academics-

RADHIKA SAINATH: –to the actual
committee’s website. It’s really–
COUNCIL MEMBER LANCMAN: [interposing]
Are– Israeli academics from universities–
RADHIKA SAINATH: [interposing] You can
go to the–
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COUNCIL MEMBER LANCMAN: –and colleges
outside of the West Bank not subject to boycott?
Are—are Israeli–
RADHIKA SAINATH: [interposing] It’s the
institutions. If people would—Israeli officials can
be subject to—to academic boycotts as well. So it’s
not—again, it’ not about individuals and their
individual capacities. It’s about institutions.
It’s about companies. Again, this is a, um, we’re
talking about people who are taking a principled
stance for human rights here. When—when Governor
Cuomo did a boycott of North Carolina for its antiLGBTQ laws, no one said that hey, you know, why are
you singling North Carolina for discrimination?
There’s a whole bunch of other countries a whole lot
more discriminatory. No one said that they targeted
North Carolinians. So the question here really is
why is this Council singling out people who support
Palestinian human rights for condemnation? That’s a—
you know, I’ll just say, you know, I’m Indian
American. My parents are from India. There were
some quotes from Gandhi going on here. I’ve been an
activist on may different issues before I became an
attorney at Palestine Legal. When I’ve spoken out
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for any human rights, no one asked me why I’m, you
know, singling out India for condemnation. Why don’t
I talk about Sudhakar (sic) and African countries
that have it so much worse than India. So really I
mean I—I—I want you all to think very carefully here
about why—why we’re spending so much time trying to
condemn New Yorkers of every stripe, every religion,
every background who are really—care very
passionately about this issue?
COUNCIL MEMBER LANCMAN: [interposing] To
answer—to answer the question–
RADHIKA SAINATH: I won’t be able to
answer the question because I don’t want to cause
any–
COUNCIL MEMBER LANCMAN: –that you put
to me, and I know that you didn’t—you didn’t answer
my question, which was a focused legal question, but
to answer that you put to me, despite what the last
panelist said, it’s true that the BDS Movement is not
winning in any way shape of form. There almost no
actual successes in terms of having an economic
impact on—or—or impact on the State of Israel. We
are here today because you movement is creating a
climate of, an actuality of fear, anti-Semitism and
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depression of the rights of those who are pro-Israel
and in many cases they don’t even have to be proIsrael. They just have to be Jewish to be able to go
about their lives. That’s really why we’re here to
answer your question to me.
LINDA SARSOUR: So I would like to
respond because you quoted from my testimony, and
Councilman Lancman we don’t agree on Israel policy,
and I’m not going to get into that either. We’re
just not going to ever agree, and I don’t care to
agree with you on that, but what I will say is I was
invited to the New York University during MLK Week,
and pro-Zionist groups and Jewish groups on college
campus did a campaign on the NYU campus asking for
the New York University to disinvite me from the MLK
Week. The irony of the situation again comes to
light. So, students are—the Jewish students are free
to organize. They are free to call on the campus to
disinvite me. They are free to advocate with their
fellow students to not invite Indusar (sic) students
to come to their school because the Indusar School is
an anti-summit. That’s exactly what happened. The
students on the other side, the Black Student
movement, the Black Lives Matter Chapter, the
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Students for Justice in Palestine organized and they
were committed to me and my attendance to speak at
their college campus. The point here is that we’re
missing is that people who are pro-Israel have the
right to stand up for the State of Israel. You have
the right to—to—to say and feel what you want to feel
as an individual. What I don’t think that people
have the right do is why we are—why we are
experiencing Islamophobia in this country, when you
say ‘your movement’ you are making it seem like we
own something like I got it in my pocket or I—I
registered it here in Brooklyn, New York. This is a
movement, a collective movement of people all over
the world. These are people I never met in my life,
but ware aligned on a mission together. We are
aligned on some principles and values. You can’t
take a movement and paint us all just like the Islama
folks say we’re all—we must be all ISIS because we’re
Muslim. Like this is the problem with the—the—where
we are right now. I don’t think all Jews are antiPalestinian for example. So that this—this broad
bush or your movement or the BDS Movement in capital
letters with an underline is what’s false here. So
you can believe what you want to believe, but it has
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to be based on fact. I won’t take from you your
personal experience, but I will not allow you to
broad brush all and then come and say this movement
is anti-Semitic. What, in fact, you ware saying is
that Imam Talib, Imam Abdus Musa we are anti-Semites
and we will not accept that just like you won’t
accept me saying that you are an Islamophobe like
this is the—the fundamental problem that we have.
COUNCIL MEMBER LANCMAN: Right, so I’m
not—I’m not asking you to accept that I think that
you’re anit-Semities, which I—which I do—
IMAM TALIB ABDUR-RASHID: [interposing]
And that anti-Jewish and Anti-Semites.
LINDA SARSOUR: [interposing] Does the
Chair of the committee and Mr. Mark Levine know that?
COUNCIL MEMBER LANCMAN: [interposing]
You’re—you’re entitled to your view, and I’m entitled
to mine. I thought that’s what started our
conversation.
LINDA SARSOUR: So we are entitled to
each other views–
COUNCIL MEMBER LANCMAN: [interposing]
But what yours–
LINDA SARSOUR: –what I’m asking you–
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COUNCIL MEMBER LANCMAN: Well, your—you—
you are here as supporters of the BDS Movement, and
this resolution is about the BDS Movement. You have
chosen to subscribe to that–
LINDA SARSOUR: [interposing] We are
here–
COUNCIL MEMBER LANCMAN: –to that
movement, and that’s what we are debating.
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: Councilman
Lancman, I’m going to ask that we—
COUNCIL MEMBER LANCMAN: [interposing]
This isn’t a—a resolution about—
LINDA SARSOUR: [interposing] Council
Member Lancman, I would like—I would ask—that you–
COUNCIL MEMBER LANCMAN: [interposing] So
you subscribe–
LINDA SARSOUR: [interposing] I would ask
that you respectfully not to put words in–in my
mouth. I am woman and I am Palestinian and I’m a New
Yorker, and I can speak for myself. I came here in
opposition to a resolution that chills free speech
coming out of the Contracts Committee. Although it
was clarified by Council Member Rosenthal that that
was in the resolution, which I am outraged that
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somebody actually thought it should be in the
resolution in the first place. Well, let’s say that
we moved on from that, but that this can have
chilling effects on non-profit organizations, on
Palestinians and Muslims and Jewish groups and civil
rights groups, and groups that do social services in
communities of color who may have leadership or may
want to engage in BDS that you—this could chill free
speech. So what I’m—I’m here to say to you this:
I’m not trying to convince you about BDS. You can
think whatever you want about BDS and that’s cool
because that’s why we’re in American, but what I’m
telling you is this is a conversation and a debate
about free speech. Tell me that I have the right to
BDS. Israel 20 years from now when I’m 60 years old
I might a BDS in other countries. For God’s sake,
I’ll start a BDS movement against Saudi Arabia. This
is about fundamental human rights and justice for the
Palestinian people just like you know, and we don’t
have to agree, but don’t take my agency away as
someone who stands for the human rights of all people
in New York City. This is also a disturbance to the
people saying.
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CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: [interposing]
Council Member–
LINDA SANSOUR: –black lives matter or
terrorist organizations–
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: –Lancman, do you
want us to give you a few minutes–
LINDA SANSOUR: –called the Black Lives
organizations.
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: –or because
just, you realize there are other people who—
IMAM TALIB ABDUR-RASHID: Yeah, and—and—
and I would like to respond to the Council Member’s–
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: [interposing] I—I
just really–
IMAM TALIB ABDUR-RASHID: –response.-
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: –cannot
emphasize enough we—
COUNCIL MEMBER LANCMAN: [interposing]
But I’ll just–
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: I’d—I’d like to
wrap this–
COUNCIL MEMBER LANCMAN: [interposing]
Yeah, I’ll—I’ll keep it–
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: –exchange up.
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COUNCIL MEMBER LANCMAN: The Council
takes many opportunities to stand for different
things. Usually good things that I support. We’re
against racism. We’re against homophobia, we’re
against Islamophobia, we’re against anti-Semitism and
insofar as this resolution if it should pass will
have the effect of—because it has no—no force of law.
Like we’ll have the moral effect of chilling, the
speech of people who would skew or engage in what I
believe is anti-Semitic language, behavior support,
then that’s why I’m supporting this resolution. It
is my intention and I only speak for myself. With
this resolution to, in fact, shame the people who
support the Boycott, Divestment Sanction Movement
against Israel, and I hope that that will have an
effect on their conduct, just as I hope that the
other things that we do will shame people who are
racists, and shame people who are Islamophobe and
shame people who are Homophobes, et cetera.
IMAM TALIB ABDUR-RASHID: Sure, I—
COUNCIL MEMBER LANCMAN: So thank you for
your time.
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: So there are two
more members who have questions. Someone wrote a
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note to me expressing their concern they might not
have a chance to speak. I will make sure everyone
has a chance to speak. We’ve changed the calendar
for today. So, just—we do have this room beyond 1
o’clock. So I don’t want anyone to feel anxious
about not being able to—having a chance on their
panel. I’m going to ask Council Member Grodenchik
to—to limit his questions.
COUNCIL MEMBER GRODENCHIK: Thank you,
Madam Chair, and I promise I will be brief. I don’t
really have questions for the panel. I appreciate
their being here today, and I appreciate their
expressing their First Amendment Rights. I do want
to go on the record, though, to say that in now way,
shape or form in my opinion does this resolution
suppress anybody’s First Amendment Rights. Everybody
that is sitting here is a member of the New York City
Council. We have all taken an oath to defend the
Constitution of the United States of America, which
includes the Bill of Rights and the First Amendment,
and everybody here today has acted accordingly except
for those people who supped BDS who were here today
to suppress the rights of those people who testified
in favor of this resolution. And I think as a New
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York as an American as a citizen of the world that
that was outrageous and needs to be condemned. I
don’t know if it was planned. I don’t know if it was
spontaneous, but it was outrageous, it was sickening
and it was disgusting to me to sit here as a member
of this Council representing 165,000 people in one of
the most diverse districts in the City of New York to
have to listen to this nonsense when people were
prepared to testify. So Madam Chair, I think you for
your patience. I thank you for conducting, as you
always do, with the utmost integrity and sincerity
and with a tremendous amount of patience, and we will
go from here. We will agree and we will disagree on
various issues, but I want to go on the record as
stating that the most important thing that has to
happen in this chamber is that people have to be
civil even when their feelings are strong because
otherwise we will evolve into things that we don’t
want to see. We have seen ugliness on the national
scale from some politicians and would-be politicians.
We cannot countenance that here in this chamber.
Thank you, Madam Chair for your patience with me.
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: Always. Council
Member Levin.
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COUNCIL MEMBER LEVIN: Thank you very,
Madam Chair. I have a very quick question and—and I
don’t meant to be naïve or coy or provocative in
asking questions. I just want to get—it’s a question
that’s—that’s been on my mind as these discussions
have—have been ongoing. Does—does the BDS Movement,
the Global BDS Movement, I don’t know if anyone here
feels qualified to speak on behalf of the Global BDS
Movement, but the Global BDS Movement recognized a
two-state solution that would recognize Israel’s
right to exist as a—-as a Jewish homeland, as a
Jewish state, and that’s—I don’t—again I don’t mean
to be provocative. I—I want to get some clarity
because that—that is obviously a point of—of—of
significant contention and there’s a lot of reading
into position. Explicitly, can somebody state
whether the Global BDS Movement recognizes a twostate solution with a Palestinian state that is
sovereign, and a Jewish Israeli state that is
stopped. (sic)
PAUL GAZZOLA: I think—I think we should
make it very clear for those who are confused that
the BDS Movement is not a Palestinian political
party. It is not the PLO. It is not the PSLP. It
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is not Hamas. It is civil society members, average
Palestinians that work in unions that work as
teachers, but there’s the service workers.
COUNCIL MEMBER LEVIN: [interposing]
It’s just a statement of principle, right?
PAUL GAZZOLA: Yes, and I’m, you know,
what I’m going to read you what the demands of the
BSD movement are so that people are very clear about
what that is because it has nothing to do with two
states, one state.
COUNCIL MEMBER LEVIN: I’m not asking
about the demands. I’m asking about the statement of
principle.
PAUL GAZZOLA: But the statement of
principle was based on demand.
COUNCIL MEMBER LEVIN: Okay.
PAUL GAZZOLA: I just want to make it
very clear because the BDS Movement is concerned with
the human rights of the Palestinian people. It has
nothing to do with—
LINDA SARSOUR: [interposing] They don’t
take a political on two states.
PAUL GAZZOLA: They don’t have a position
on one state or two states. They’re concerned with
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the fundamental human rights or the Palestinian
people. So the first demand, which is what the
principles are based on, but it’s because I’m going
to read it to you right now. I’m going to read it to
you right now. BDS called—the BDS called—
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: [interposing] You
know, what, I was really hoping that would be a yes
or no.
PAUL GAZZOLA: [interposing] No, no, I’mI’m going to do it because I have–
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: And I don’t mean
that to be slip–
PAUL GAZZOLA: [interposing] –because I
have
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: –but I’ve got
two people now who are telling me they have to leave
at 1:10, one person who has already submitted, one of
whom who have already submitted their testimony for
the record. So she can’t testify, and I’ve got three
students who are telling me they have to get back to
class. So whether it’s all–so, Helen’s answer—so
the answer to—the answer to the afternoon–
PAUL GAZZOLA: [interposing] Ma’am, this
is not an—this is not a yes or no question.
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CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: –one, two,
three. I’m going to allow you to answer for two
minutes. You’re on the clock,
PAUL GAZZOLA: [interposing] It will be
less than two minutes.
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: –and then this
panel is finished.
PAUL GAZZOLA: In less than two minutes.
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: Can you please
put it on? Thank you very much.
PAUL GAZZOLA: Less than two minutes.
I’m going to read it real quick, okay. The
Palestinian BDS call urges non-violent pressure on
Israel until it complies with international law by
meeting three demands, and these are all things that
are stipulated in the U.N. resolutions and
International Human Rights Law. Ending its
occupation in and colonization of all Arab lands and
dismantling the wall, international law recognizes
the West Bank including East Jerusalem, Gaza,
Manchego and places occupied by Israel. That’s very
basic. Everybody knows that. It’s even close to
U.S. position. Recognizing the fundamental rights of
the Arab Palestinian and the citizens of Israel to
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full equality. If the BDS movement sought to destroy
Israel, then why would it fund—ask for the
fundamental right of Arab Palestinian citizens of
Israel to full equality. That doesn’t make sense.
If they’re asking for the destruction of Israel, then
they wouldn’t even call for– Exactly. So you get
it. Respecting, protecting and promoting the rights
of Palestinian refugees to return to their home and
property as stipulated in Resolution 194, which is
also based on International Human Rights Law. So
this is the basic fundamental. This is what the
demands are, and this is what—this is how we target
companies based on that. That’s basic.
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: But I’ll take
that as a non-answer actually, but ask that this
panel depart. Jane Hershman has said that she needs
to leave in a minute. Donna Nevel wanted to testify,
but she already submitted her testimony for the
record, and so according to the rules, I’m not—she is
not going to come up and testify. Jane you have two
minutes if you would like to testify as all the
panels going forward will have two minutes. I am
specifically taking you out of order as the next
panel that’s ready to go is in favor of the
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resolution. You can choose to testify at this time
or not, but I will—a fair warning not be advancing
the time for anyone else who feels they need to
testify out of order. And then just to line up the
next panel, we have Lisa Pollack, Lauren Solner,
Mosha Bergman, Jeff Weisensel and Hindy Poupko who
will testify after this two-minute testimony at this
time. Jane. [background comments] I am just so
sorry, but someone else needs to leave. As I said,
you have two minutes. You may not testify. I am
being told by my counsel that once you submit—are you
Donna Nevel?
PROFESSOR FRANKE: No, no, Donna is over
there. [background comments/pause] I’m Professor
Katherine Franke from Columbia Law School.
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: And you also have
to leave early. You don’t have to leave early?
PROFESSOR FRANKE: I would have liked to
have left a long time ago I think.
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: All of us would
have liked to have liked–
PROFESSOR FRANKE: [interposing] I’m sure
you would have, too.
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CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: –to have lunch a
long time ago.
PROFESSOR FRANKE: But I do. I have a
class to teach.
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: You know what, I—
I actually have made—I—I shouldn’t go out of order.
The order is the order. The, you know, Jane if you
want to talk for two minutes, I said out loud you can
talk for two minutes and let’s let that happen right
now. After, we’re going back to them for the
resolution, against the resolution. Everyone has two
minutes to speak.
SERGEANT-AT-ARMS: Alright, folks, if
your name wasn’t called, please take a seat. Please
find a seat.
JANE HERSHMAN: Before I give my
testimony, I just–
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: No, this—the
clock is starting now.
JANE HERSHMAN: I just want—I just want
to—why-why—I mean everybody else had a few minutes.
I just want to respond to what you opened with, which
was, which I agree with, which is that we should have
an open and fair discussion and a respect for one,
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and I appreciate the remark, but I think that that
should have happened before the resolution was
written, and that we would have had that kind of
discussion before 55 council members signed onto the
resolution, and I don’t know if our testimony means
anything because people have already signed on. But
I just—I just want to say that for the record it
would have been better had we had that discussion.
Okay, my name is Jane Hershman and I am representing
a group called Jews They Know. We’re a New York City
based group of Jews who stand up for human rights and
justice in Palestine. We believe in the best
tradition—[background comment/pause]
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: All of your
testimony is being read into the record, and all of
it will be online.
JANE HERSHMAN: Okay. We believe in the
best tradition of the Jewish people to criticize, to
argue, to think and think some more about issues of
justice and fairness to protest—to protest human
rights abuses where they exist. Indeed for many of
us that is one of the major lessons of the Holocaust.
Also, as Jews we have a particular obligation to
speak out concerning Israel, which reports to speak
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COMMITTEE ON CONTRACTS 137
for Jews everywhere. As the daughter of Holocaust
survivors, anti-Semitism concerns me deeply, but to
suggest, as the resolution does, that the BDS
Movement is anti-Semitic or attempt to delegitimize
Israel is unfounded rhetoric and defamatory. This
resolution and similar ones nationwide have been
promoted by the Israeli lobbying segments of our
community to distract people from the real issue at
hand, that is Israel human rights abuses and blatant
disregard for the law. This resolution is based on
the premise that if you protest the inhumane behavior
and policies of a nation, you are delegitimizing that
state, and in the case of Israel, you’re antiSemitic. The U.N. and several international courts
have made it clear that Israel is in violation of
international law. These violations include the 60-
year illegal [bell] occupation of the West Bank, the
illegal settlement expansion. Well, my major point
is that this—this resolution is based on the fact
that BDS Movement is delegitimizing Israel, and the
fact is that Israel has delegitimized itself by
behaving in this terrible way, and abusing the
Palestinians by stealing their land and their water,
by the settlement expansion, by the killings of
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people in Gaza, and it is really Israel that is
delegitimizing itself. If you take the Montgomery
Boycott with this way delegitimize Alabama–
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: [interposing]
Okay, thank you so much.
JANE HERSHMAN: –or was it to—to really
talk to the racist policy. Our governor has said we
should ask for a–
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: [interposing] I’m
going to ask you to please stop–
JANE HERSHMAN: –a boycott this.
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: –and I’m
forewarning—fair warning–
JANE HERSHMAN: [interposing] Why am I the
only one that can answer the problem? (sic)
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: –to the panel in
front of us, there will be a two-minute limits.
Professor Franke, I’m sorry.
PROFESSOR FRANKE: Okay.
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: We will come back
to a panel that is speaking against the resolution as
soon as this panel is finished. Can I ask you to
please all have a seat? Thank you.
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JANE HERSHMAN: This is the most
undemocratic hearing I have ever been at, and to let
all those people who did nothing up in the balcony,
some of whom were teachers today.
MALE SPEAKER: [interposing] I just—I
just have to make the observation.
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: Good.
MALE SPEAKER: That we wasted more time
with people disrupting this hearing than—than we have
with actually having the hearing.
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: Why do you think
that is?
MALE SPEAKER: So if the BDS reporters
had not disrupted hear–
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: Why do you think
that is?
MALE SPEAKER: –continually, everybody
would have had a full and complete opportunity.
JANE HERSHMAN: I have been before this
Council for 30 years. I have never–
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: [interposing] You
know, I—
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JANE HERSHMAN: –been to a hearing like
this, but you should ask yourself why did this
happen? Ask yourself that question.
COUNCIL MEMBER GRODENCHIK: Madam Chair.
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: Council Member
Grodenchik.
COUNCIL MEMBER GRODENCHIK: Well, I don’t
know—I don’t know if these two people on the left
side of the panel are finished testify, and I know—so
I’ll let them—I’ll let the testify before I ask a
question.
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: We have a panel
in front of us, and we’re going to start again on
left, my left to right, and if you could if in case I
chopped up your name, if you could just introduce
yourself and from fair warning to everyone we are
strictly on a two-minute clock. Please if you’re
testifying keep an eye on the clock because I am
going to cut you off at two minutes. So when you see
10 seconds, I would urge you to wrap up. [pause]
MUSHA BERMAN: Okay. So I wrote here
good morning, but clearly it isn’t. So that’s good
afternoon. Thank you for having me here. My name is
Musha Berman and I’m a senior at Brooklyn College. I
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grew up in Manhattan, Paulus Hook and I live in
Brooklyn. I’ve been student activist since my
freshman year. I’ve served on Student Assembly as
president of the Israel Club and the Computer Science
Club. In my time serving fellow students, and in
time sitting here this morning, I learned that groups
that promoted the boycott and signer (sic) of Israel
had to promote that behavior, too. Last semester a
group of about 15 students interrupted a faculty
meeting and reportedly called the Orthodox Jewish
Council Chair a Zionist blank. Two students—the two
students accused of shouting those words stood at a
disciplinary hearing under what’s known as the
Henderson Laws in New York State. I was curious
about the—those laws. So I looked them up, and I
went to that Section 129-A of the New York State
Education Code that requires every college in the
state to have a code of conduct. CUNY’s Code of
Conduct, which the students were accused of violation
prohibits the encroachment on First Amendment Rights
of other people including shouting down the Jewish
faculty chair as he’s running the meeting, and I
believe someone else is here to speak about their
experience with that as well. The same code of
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conduct was changed October 27, 1980 to say that any
organization—this is a quote—“Any organization which
authorizes conduct prohibited under substantive Rules
1 through 9 shall have his permission to operate on
campus rescinded.” Based on this incident, it is my
firm belief that SJP, Students for Justice in
Palestine, has no place in our City University
system, and should be rejected as a supported of BDS.
Similarly, anti-Semitic companies have no right to do
business with our great city of New York. I urge the
Council to take action in favor of the resolution to—
and—and also to enforce the bylaws to the full extent
of their legal authority, and to support freedom and
justice in our commercial dealings and in general.
Thank you. That is the end of my reported remarks.
I just wanted to set for the record straight the word
anti-Semitism is a German scientific term set to
refer to Jews specifically. I acknowledge that Arabs
are a Semites, but to go off the word is inaccurate
historically. Thank you.
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: I almost gave you
a mazel tov, friend of the on time.
MUSHA BERMAN: Alright.
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL:
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COMMITTEE ON CONTRACTS 143
MUSHA BERMAN: I timed it, and then I
heard someone say something that was not accurate.
So I wanted to set it straight. Thank you.
LISA BUCHSBAUM: Thank you. I speak
before you the City Council as both the Executive
Director Hillel Hunter College and the daughter of a
Holocaust survivor and veteran of Israel’s War for
Independence who will be turning 93 tomorrow. My
devotion to the preservation of the Jewish faith came
from my father, a man who had seen the worst of
humanity. The preservation of Judaism is why today I
work for Hillel. Each and every day I’m privileged
to engage with young New Yorkers at Hunter about
Judaism, its values and its complexities that arise
in this ever-changing world. Not surprisingly as
these conversations go on, sensitive topics come to
the fore, the most prominently being Israel. My
students hold an incredibly broad spectrum of views
on Israel. However, when they can converse about
this sensitive topic, their intelligence and
willingness to avoid personal attack shines through.
The very notion of the Global BDS Movement violates
the spirit of conversation I seek to engender in my
Hillel. So, my students are young and both cursed
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and blessed with the passion that comes from youth.
I do not seek to silence them. Frank and honest
conversations about Israel are necessary. Israel is
not the mythical city upon a hill like every other
country. It has flaws, but in spite of its flaws,
it’s still a great country succeeding a region that
is striped with discord. In my student’s
conversation that is the theme one of openness and
honesty about both Israel’s challenges and successes.
The supporters of BDS strive for none of this balance
only condemnation and ignoring her place as the most
democratic society in the Middle East. They openly
and proudly compare Israel to Nazi Germany,
particularly wounding to me and my students, many of
whom carry familial scars of the Holocaust. Any
important issue that we face today ranging from
racial inequality to student debt is liable to be
conflated. I’ll skip parts. I pride myself on
encouraging open— Sorry. To illustrate, on November
12, 2015, the Million Student March that was to have
addressed student debt and faculty consideration–
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: [interposing] Oh,
again, just to be clear, for all those who turn in
their testimony it is part of the record, and it will
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be read in full. I’m so sorry, but we’re really
enforcing the two-minute rule. So if you say I want
a sentence to go over, I’m going to nod and encourage
you. But when you start a new story, it’s not going
to happen. So if you want one sentence to conclude,
I’m more than happy to give you one sentence, and
then we’ll be moving on.
LISA BUCHSBAUM: The notions of BDS
violates the tenets of Jewish faith, the aims of
Hunter College and the very freedoms upon which the
United States was founded and New York thrives.
LOREN SOLEMAN: Ladies and gentlemen of
the Council, my name is Loren Soleman and I’m
currently a sophomore at the Macaulay Honors College
at Hunter College. I am a Jew and as far as long
I’ve been politically conscious I’ve been an
unabashed unapologetic Zionist. My grandmother, a
Holocaust survivor, never quite recovered from the
trauma of surviving the war. As a result, she had my
father baptized because as she said, it’s okay, to be
Jewish in your heart but on paper. The constant
violence and suffering she witnessed and endure in
wartime Europe was enough to scare her for the rest
of her war—rest of her life. Growing up a Jew in
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Manhattan, I never expected to face violence for
being a proud Jew and a proud lover of Israel
especially at a college, a subway stop away from
where I grew up. Luckily, I haven’t yet faced
violence, but that doesn’t mean BDS has not called
for it. You see, they co-op other worthy causes as
their own, co-sponsoring or coordinating an event
with another group. Just like Ms. Sansorigan (sp?)
with Black Lives Matter, she conveniently forgets
Operation Solomon in the 1990’s in which 14,000
Ethiopian Jews were brought to Israel as refugees.
But also just last year at a protest about adjunct
professors’ benefits, SJP and the BDS affiliates were
front and center. This was a labor issue that
nothing to do with Israel and Palestine, but just
like at many other rallies, Zionists out of CUNY and
Intifada, Intifada rang through the southwest corner
of 68th Street and Lexington Avenue. It hasn’t yet
applied to me, but it has instilled a certain level
of fear in myself and other Jewish students on
campus, and as a result I strong stand in affirmation
of this resolution, and I urge the entire City
Council of New York to do the same. Thank you very
much.
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JEFF WIESENFELD: I’m Jeff Wiesenfeld.
I’m representing the Advisory Board of the New York
Board of Rabbis and by way of identification, I’m
also the Treasurer of the World Jewish Congress and a
member of the Board of the JCRC. Look, we’ve heard a
lot of things here, and people have—have danced
around quite a number of circumstances. It’s very
interesting that in the last panel we heard from the
Palestinian representative. If you listen to the
principles that he enunciated, he made it very clear
that those three principles mean the destruction of
Israel. When 600,000 Palestinian refugees at the
urging of their Arab compatriots moved out, one
million Jews who had lived for a millennium in all of
the Arab countries were thrown out similarly. There
were Farah hoards, there were hangings, their
property was stolen. Everyone else settled their
refugee problem. Here is a problem of professional
refuges for four generations. Let’s talk about it
plainly. Even the Arab states a fed up with it
already. BDS is conscientious objection. It’s not
about territory. It’s not about settlements. It’s—
it’s as Makwana Bagudi (sp?) has said, it’s about the
dismantlement of the Jewish state. Neither he nor
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COMMITTEE ON CONTRACTS 148
his descendants, I might add, will ever live to see
it. This is—this is the final and third temple of
the Jewish people and it’s not going anywhere. The
true problem is that the Jihadists amongst the four
generations of professional refugees that are
suppressed sponsored by Unra, and the Jew haters who
inculcate hatred and incitement to their children do
to subjugation by corrupt kleptomaniacal and
oppressive Palestinian authorities. The Arab states
have had enough of it. The BDSers can have Iran, and
their newborn European anti-Semites as their—as their
allies, but we know what it’s all about. We’re not
fooled. You can be as eloquent as you want. There’s
one Jewish state. The Jewish state represents the
movement of Jewish national liberation, something
that they would deny to no other people. And
finally—and finally, most eloquently to quote Mayor
de Blasio. We in the United States or in any nation
you can disagree with a particular government’s
policy at that moment in time, but it doesn’t mean
that you don’t believe in that nation or its right to
exist or its founding ideals. BDS is an—is
ahistorical. It writes off the critical facts in the
histories of Israel, and the surround region
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including that Israel has been the Jewish homeland
for several thousand years. There are plenty of
people who support BDS who have advanced degrees, and
call themselves progressive. I look forward to
challenging them. Thank you, Mayor de Blasio.
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: Thank you.
Good afternoon. My name is Cindy Poupko
and I’m the Managing Director of the Commission on
the Jewish People at UJA Federation of New York.
Thank you for your leadership on this issue, and
thank you to all the co-sponsors. As part of my job
at UJA Federation I work to ensure that our students
have a safe and fulfilling academic experience on our
campuses. Unfortunately, the BDS Movement threated
this fundamental right. My colleagues before me
clearly articulated the real goals of the BDS
Movement. It’s not complicated. You ask their
founder would BDS and if Israel withdrew from the
West Bank and he said no, it wouldn’t end, and we
hear this rally after rally. When they refer to a
daily occupation, they referred to that since 1948.
This is not Israel’s presence at the West Bank. This
is about the presence of a Jewish state in our
ancestral homeland. There is nothing complicated or
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ambiguous about it. Another way to judge a movement
is by the act that that it inspires. On campus after
campus, Northeastern, Northwestern, Perdue, Vassar
and Stanford, Swastikas appeared in bathroom, and a
Jewish fraternity when a BDS debate was happening on
campus. There is a direct correlation, and it’s not
big and it’s not confusing. It’s clear. On November
12, 2015, there was a protest outside of Hunter that
was supposed to be about rising tuition costs at
CUNY. It was co-opted by BDS activists who chanted,
“Zionists out of CUNY. Zionists out of CUNY.” I met
with the students the next day. They said to me, “I
didn’t wear my Yamaka to school because I was
afraid.” They were afraid because of the toxic and
hateful environment that was created at that rally,
that is created on campuses across the city on every
single day. It is unconscionable that in a city like
New York, home to the largest Jewish population
outside of Israel that we have students who feel that
they can’t wear their Yamakas proudly, and hold their
heads high. I commend you for your courageous
leadership. We all know that what happens in New
York never stays in New York, and this resolution
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will have profound reverberations across the country
and I thank you.
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: Thank you very
much to the panel. Are there any questions? I
haven’t gotten any additional— Okay. Thank you so
much for your time and for your patience, and get
back to class. Yeah, if you’d show the sergeant-atarms. Okay, I’m calling up the next panel. Donna
Nevel, I was incorrect about your ability to testify.
Please join us. Katherine Frank. Lamumba Bendell,
Marty Goodman, Jim Fararat, again Farrat. If I have
mispronounced any names, please correct them when you
introduce yourselves, and we are again sticking very
strictly to the two-minute clock with your help from
the sergeant-at-arms. [background comments] Two
minutes. Those just showed up there. Yes. Okay. If
you could—Donna, if you could begin.
DONNA NEVEL: I’m Donna Nevel, a Board
Member for Jewish Voice for Peace. First, I’d just
like to say there’s no time to list the many reasons
why, but I need to say for the record that I believe
this hearing left any integrity. As part of my
commitment to speaking out and supporting the
movement for Justine in Palestine and Israel, I’d
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like to speak about why I consider it my
responsibility to stand in support of the movement
for Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions, BDS, and why I
strongly opposed the resolution being put forth
today. As a board member of JDP, a national
organization dedicated to a just peace for
Palestinians and Israelis, I am speaking here to
represent the growing numbers of progressive Jews who
support this global movement for Justice. The
resolution under discussion shamelessly and
shamefully distorts the BDS movement’s goals. BDS is
about leveraging pressure to compel a state to change
its behavior and respect human rights. The BDS
movement is not permanent. This pressure is needed
only until Israel complies with basic principles of
equality. BDS has garnered such strong international
support among concerned people including Jews across
the globe because people of conscience oppose decades
of denial of a people’s basic human and national
rights. One of the false and destruction accusations
being made is that it is anti-Semitic to support BDS.
This is not only a highly irresponsible accusation
and harmful to those fighting for justice, but it
also does an injustice to the reality of actual anti-
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Semitism when it occurs. It is not discriminatory in
any way to hold a nation state accountable for its
human rights abuses, and for violations of
international law. There is nothing anti-Semitic
about that in any rational definition of antiSemitism. On a final and personal note, I support
the ethical and yes dignified call for BDS as a Jew
and as a human being committed to justice and to
peace. I have always felt and continue to feel
deeply connected to my community’s history of
struggle and resistance, of the anti-Semitism and
oppression we’ve endured. In no way is my support
for BDS and my deep commitment to justice for
Palestinians at odds with that deep connection to my
people. Therefore, I will continue to support BDS
until thousands and thousands—along with thousands
and thousands of other across the globe until there
is a just solution in ending state policies that are
discriminatory and anti-democratic and ensuring equal
rights and respect and safety for all. Thank you.
[background comments]
KATHERINE FRANKE: Yep. Thank you so
much for giving us the opportunity to speak. I, like
others didn’t this moment would come. So, I
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appreciate your deft handling of the day to day. I’m
Katherine Franke. I am a law professor at Columbia
Law School where I am a scholar of constitutional law
and civil rights. I’m also the chair of the Board of
the Center for Constitutional Rights, a 50-year-old
organization that has stood with and by social
movements that have fought for civil rights in the
United States and across the globe. But before I was
a law professor, I was a supervising attorney at the
New York City Human Rights Commission. I know a
little bit about discrimination. I just—I litigated
employment, housing and public accommodations cases,
many of which tragically were based on claims of
anti-Semitism, and many of them founded. I also have
endorsed the academic and cultural boycott of Israel.
If I thought there were any way in which the—the—the
academic and cultural boycott of Israel further and
instantiated a form of anti-Semitism, I would never
have endorsed it, and I would actually disavow it
actively. It’s—it’s—I lost my train. I’ve been so
upset the thought that a tactic that is used by
political movements whether it’s the Boston Tea Party
and the founding of the United States, in South
Africa or to protest apartheid by civil rights
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activists here in the United States and the
Montgomery bus boycott would be reduced to a kind of
hatred of the people. I think it’s simplistic, and
it’s offensive. So I’m here as a representative of
the civil rights community. I’m here as someone who
cares deeply about protecting the civil and human
rights of all New Yorkers, and I’m here because I—I
feel if what you’re interested in doing, and if what
the Council is interested in doing is condemning
anti-Semitism, then pass a resolution that does that,
and all of us will endorse it, but passing a
resolution–and there was a semicolon there—passing a
resolution passing a resolution that condemns BDS by
conflating it with anti-Semitism is wrong minded and
not based on the facts. Thank you so much.
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: Thank you and I
appreciate your use of the semicolon.
LAMUMBA BANDELLI: Good afternoon. My
name is Lamumba Bandelli (sp?) and a member of the
Malcolm X Grassroots Movement. The Malcolm X
Grassroots Movement continues to stand with freedom
loving people and people of good conscience around
the world in opposition to this resolution. Since
our organization was founded in ’91, the Malcolm X
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Grassroots Movement has and continues to firmly—
firmly assert the right of the Palestinian people to
resist their ongoing occupation and colonization by
the Israeli government and the inter—international
forces of Zionism. We also firmly support the
Palestinian people’s right to self-determination and
statehood, and the unequivocal—unequivocal and
irrevocable right to return. I must say that if the
leadership of this hearing had its way, I would not
be able to sit here and read this statement today. So
I want to also reiterate some of what has been
already said about the integrity of this panel, and I
hope that some of the council members will remove—
will correct some of their statements in insulting
members of the previous panel who are important
members of our community and to call them anti- antiSemites is a problem, and I hope that they will offer
an apology. I will close by saying to attack those
defending and supporting human rights, and
specifically calling for boycott and divestment is
absolutely immoral. I ask you to imagine yourselves
in the same seat in the mid-1980s when the global
community called for divestment of South Africa’s
Apartheid Regime. How would you have voted? Where
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would you stand on this issue? You have an
opportunity, but more importantly an obligation to
stand on the right side of history. The Constitution
that you all have sworn to uphold protects the rights
of U.S. citizens to call out injustice. For
lawmakers to step over their bounds and to simply
disagree, and attack the rights of—of the strategies
and those standing for freedom is attack—is an attack
on Democracy. The Governor of New York is wrong.
Mayor de Blasio is wrong, and so are those in support
of this resolution. We urge you to reconsider, to
defend democracy and to stand in the principles of
freedom and justice.
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: Thank you and I
saw you sitting up in the balcony. Thank you for
making the effort to come back in and to testify. I
really appreciate that.
LAMUMBA BANDELLI: There are dozens of
other people who were—are still outside.
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: No good deed goes
unpunished. Thank you.
LAMUMBA BANDELLI: Who are still outside.
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: Thank you.
That’s it.
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LAMUMBA BANDELLI: The only way I was
able to get in was because I actually had to pull a
personal favor with the council members that I know.
What about the people who do not know those council
members? The integrity of this hearing has been
totally undermined.
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: Okay, so next,
please. Thank you.
JIM FORRAT: Thank you. My name is Jim
Forrat (sp?). I have sat here all day. I came at 10
o’clock and signed up first. I’m a candidate in the
primary on Tuesday. I blue off about three important
visits to senior centers today because I think this
issue is really important. I will submit a statement
that I was going to read earlier, but I just want to
say a couple of personal things with this limited
amount of time that I have. I was brought up to
believe that I had freedom of choice. When I went to
a supermarket, I could pick this bottle of bottle of
milk when I was seven or that bottle of milk. As an
adult I’ve learned that it’s much more complicated
how one makes one’s choice in a supermarket or a
store. I support this boycott, and participate in it
because I want the two sides to come to the table and
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resolve a conflict, which has created havoc in the
lives of many of generations of people I know. And I
want this Council to make a substitute resolution,
which is not partisan, but calls for what the
diversity of people that live in this city I think
would want, to use your power and influence to bring
people together and not be partisan. It’s terrible
the way the things I heard spoken this morning. It
took a great deal of age I guess and experience to
sit in my chair and not stand up and protest. I did
that out of respect to the Council. My council
person Corey Johnson is not present, and has signed
onto this, and I will talk to him personally. But
please understand you saw what happened today. If
you want to play a partisan role, you’re going to
alienate a great deal of—of the community. I just
want to end by saying that I sat in this room in 1970
and testified at the first Intro 1 hearing. It took
30 years to get equal protection under the law in the
city. When I heard this morning the use of LGBT in
opposition to—to support this resolution, I just want
to tell you I support LGBT people in Israel, and I
support LGBT people in Palestine. Let’s deal with
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the homophobia here at home, which still exists
before we condemn other people. Thank you.
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: Thank you all for
your testimony. Council Member Grodenchik.
COUNCIL MEMBER GRODENCHIK: Madam Chair,
I just have a very simple question for all the people
that are at this panel. Do you use cell phones? I
see at least two of them up there. You own a cell
phone? Just simply yes or not. [background
comments] I’m asking you if you own a cell phone?
Do you use a cell phone? Can you understand that? I
am sure you can all understand your–
LAMUMBA BANDELLI: [interposing] Can you
ask your question because once again you’re turning
this into a circus.
COUNCIL MEMBER GRODENCHIK: I’m not
turning this into a circus. I’m a council member and
I’m entitled to ask a question. I asked you a
question do you own a cell phone. I’m sure all of
you, and most of the people in this room do. My—my—
since you refuse to answer my question, the fact of
the matter is cell phone technology was developed in
the state of Israel.
AUDIENCE: Oh.
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COUNCIL MEMBER GRODENCHIK: Oh. I’m
speaking now, okay, and if you don’t like it, you can
leave, but the fact of the matter is–
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: [interposing]
So, you know what, fir the last 20 minutes or half
hour or hour, we’ve been really respectful of
listening to each other. We need to just hang in
there. I got a little cranky. I’ve had some coffee.
If you need coffee, get coffee.
COUNCIL MEMBER GRODENCHIK: Thank you,
Madam Chair.
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: But if everyone
could just hang in there a little bit longer so we
can listen to each other without any interruptions.
Thank you.
COUNCIL MEMBER GRODENCHIK: Thank you,
Madam Chair. The fact that you won’t answer the
question tells me that there is at least a bit of
hypocrisy in this room, because the fact is cell
phone technology was developed in the state of
Israel. You can leave, sir. That’s your choice, but
if you want to be honest with us here on this panel,
you could at least answer the most simple question
that was asked today. Thank you, Madam Chair.
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LAMUMBA BANDELLI: Are—are we—
JIM FORRAT: I—I sorry. I didn’t know
what the question was that you were asking. Could
you please state it simply? You said you wanted to
ask a question of all of us.
COUNCIL MEMBER GRODENCHIK: Do you own a
cell phone? It’s a yes or no answer. Thank you,
Madam Chair.
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: Yes, thank you,
council member and thank you so much to the panel.
Thank you for your patience and staying to testify.
The next panel is—includes Robin—Rabbi Jonathan
Pearl, Michael Cohen, Avi Pasnik, Sinovia Car—Carsey.
Sorry, and Michael Gottlieb. That was a handwriting
thing. Thank you all for your patience, and again we
are going to be trying to stick with the two-minute
clock. When you see one minute, you just see—the—
when you see you have 10 seconds left try to wrap up.
[background comments] Okay, I’m just going to call
two more people. Helen Friedman and Al Jones, if
they’re available. I’m just trying to grow the panel
to a panel of five. Al Jones, great. Helen Friedman
is not here. Okay, let’s begin. If you could just
introduce yourselves, the sergeant-at-arms is right
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behind you, and she will take your testimony. Two
minutes. [background comments]
SONOVIA RAJU: I’m Sonovia Raju,
Associate Director of the Department of Coalitions at
the Israel Project. I spent two years in Israel as a
freelance journalist. Prior to journalism, I was
involved in social activism at my alma mater the
University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign. I am not
Jewish, Arab or Israeli. My family immigrated from
Kenya to the United States and we are Zoroastrian,
which is an ancient ethno-religious people from Iran.
We no longer have a homeland and many of us lived in
the Diaspora. I feel a unique kinship with the
Jewish people. Like Jews, Zoroastrians have been
persecuted for millennia, kicked out of their native
Iran and forced to preserve their identity in the
Diaspora. While I was in Israel, it was evident that
Israel was the only country in the Middle East where
Zoroastrians and other religious minorities to could
freely and openly practice their religion. The BDS
Movement has tried to push itself into the ranks of
legitimate social justice movement, but BDS is not
about social justice. It’s about bullying, genocide,
anti-Semitism, and the abuse and manipulation of the
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unfortunate history of oppressed people around the
world. This year, we at the Israel Project are
working to tell the stories of black South African
social activists who traveled to Israel to find that
Israel indeed is not an Apartheid state. They found
that boycotting Israeli companies and products is
detrimental to the Palestinian economy. Worst of
all, they found that all of this happening while
their own history of racism and prejudice in
apartheid South Africa is being distorted and abused
from economic gain and political power. The BS
Movement is bigger than just boycotting Israel and
Israeli goods. It’s a movement that to me and other
religious minorities in the Middle East represent
continued persecution and isolation in the Middle
East. So as a religious and ethnic minority, my
counterparts and I around the world urge you to pass
this resolution. New York City will not subsidize,
discriminate, hate, bullying and the facts of the
history of oppressed people.
[pause, background comments]
MICHAEL KELLY: Thank you. Hi, my name
is Michael Kelly. I’m the East Coast Director of the
Sun & Reganfeld (sic) Center at the New York City
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Committee—at the new York City Council Committee on
Contract here in—here this afternoon. On behalf of
our 400,000 constituents, American families including
150,000 members residing in the New York City area, I
wish to commend Councilman Cohen and—and this
committee for launching this important initiative in
the 34 council members who have already their support
to this timely resolution. What happens in New York
is noticed, and when New Yorkers speak up the world
listens. It is time for our city who has the largest
Jewish population outside of Israel to speak out
against this insidious global BDS campaign that seeks
to demonize, weaken, and opening do away with
America’s trusted friend and ally, the only true
democracy in in the Middle East. BDS is not out to
influence Israeli policies. They’re out to
delegitimize them. It is important to recognize that
BDS has never helped a single Palestinian. It isn’t
designed to create more jobs for Palestinians, only
to erase Israeli ones. The BDS Movement is
attempting to shut down businesses where Palestinians
and Jews work together and are paid equal salaries
even when it means that hundreds of Palestinians on
whose behalf BDSers claim to advocate, lose their
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jobs and the ability to feed and support their
families. The goal of the BDS Movement is to isolate
the Jewish faith, denigrate her among Christian
churches, and an her academia from our schools.
Barring Israeli academics from New York conferences,
and shunning the Israel dynamic university are
unwarranted Draconian moves appropriate perhaps for
the likes of state controlled Iranian or North Korean
institutions and not against our nation’s most
reliable ally in the Middle East. BDS is both
morally wrong and geopolitically bankrupt as it
solely and unfairly holds Israel to a double standard
while terrorist attacks brought by her—by her
neighbors time and again are given a free pass. Make
no mistake about it, the unfair targeting of the
Jewish state alone for defending itself from
terrorism and terrorism in a world where horrific—
and—and in a world where horrific human rights abuses
around the world go unchallenged is a prime 21st
Century manifestation of the world’s oldest hate,
anti-Semitism. [bell] I—I just—we welcome, you
know, we welcome the leadership of the Council and—
and—and of all the members who have supported this
resolution to join the course of all these—of—of all
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the states and—and—and legislative bodies who have—
who have become—who have had similar resolutions and
have made similar resolutions, and we thank you again
for the opportunity to be here today.
ALBI POSNICK: Good afternoon. My name
is Albi Posnick. Thank you, Madam Chair for
convening this important session, and thank you to
Councilman Andrew Cohen for sponsoring this
resolution as well as all the co-sponsors of this
important resolution. My organization Stand With Us,
an international Israel education organization
supports those who want to educate others about
Israel. We have been a leading organization fighting
the boycott campaign against Israel in major
corporations, college campus, food co-ops, transit
systems and more throughout the country and locally
here in the great city of New York. I urge the
Council to pass this resolution, which will be good
not just for Israel, but also for the City of New
York. New York City is home to hundred of Israel
start-ups. Many Israeli technologies are used by New
Yorkers, and some are here to improve our daily lives
and protect them like the technology protecting the
New York City water supply. New York City is also
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home to large—to large Israeli-American communities.
May Israeli professors teach in New York schools and
colleges. New Yorkers and Israelis have built
tremendous bridges as well as incredible partnerships
and friendships. They have many shared values. Both
people believe strongly in liberalism and diversity.
Learning from each other is the only way to make the
world a better place. In light of increasing efforts
to target Israel and our international trade partners
for commercial discrimination, the city’s economic
interest must be defended. It is also important to
pass this resolution for the benefit of younger
generations. As I mentioned earlier, Stand With Us,
an organization for which I—I serve as Managing
Director in the Northeast, has been at the forefront
of educating students on college campuses and in high
schools about Israel for 15 years. On too many
college campuses across the country and locally here
in New York City student groups have been attacking
pro-Israel students, and calling for the boycott of
Israeli academics programs and products. They are
creating a very uncomfortable climate for students.
As Stand With Us believes education is the road to
peace and through people-to-people experiences and
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building bridges among various communities, we will
see a more peaceful region and create a better world.
Boycotting Israel does not improve the lives of
Palestinians. In fact, it hurts them. Soda Stream
is a great example of which over 1,000 Palestinians
now out of a good paying job. As Palestinian human
right activists Boston Heeb (sic) said, BDS hurts me
as a Palestinian. BDS destroyed the Palestinian
economy, and interestingly enough, in 2013 Mahmoud
Abbas, the President of the Palestinian Party came
out against boycotting Israel. Peace takes two, and
I’ll just close with this last statement. While we
have found this work in partnership with other
organizations, some who are here today, on a
grassroots level to educate—educate communities and
students and empower the next generation, we also
need the leadership of our elected officials. We
need you to do what is right. We need you to pass
this resolution, which will send a message that New
York City, the largest, most liberal, most tolerant
and most diverse and greatest city in the U.S. will
stand—will stand against the racist and destructive
movement known as BDS, and send a clear message that
this city does not stand for divisiveness—
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divisiveness especially on college campuses but
rather stands for peace and co-existence. Thank you
so much.
AL JONES: My name is Al Jones, and I’m
actually not a head or a manage of any sort of
organization, or here representing one. I’m just
here sort of representing myself. I was a student in
CUNY for undergraduate school and graduate school at
Brooklyn College and then at the Graduate Center. In
February 2013, I was a graduate student at Brooklyn
College. I attended an event featuring the founder
of the BDS Movement Omar Barghouti, and Karen Gould,
then the President of Brooklyn College sort of urged
anyone who had disagreements or questions for Mr.
Barghouti to attend to start discourse as is, you
know, alleged to be at the time one of the primary
functions of the universities. My brother and I, two
of the only visibly Jewish students aside from
mandatory (sic) Karta figures, and one of who which
was here, there were more upstairs and, you know, we
were removed from the event by the Students for
Justice in Palestine. They ordered security to
remove us for no reason other than our political
beliefs. Brooklyn College’s independent
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investigation eventually confirmed that we were
removed simply because we supported Israel, and were
holding the questions that were counted where they
said they stifled this cause violating free speech
right, and that’s not the way to peace. This
violation is perpetrated by followers of BDS. It’s a
movement that seeks to delegitimize and demonize the
only Jewish state and also anyone connected to it,
and they’ve been doing it in New York City councils
and streets without repercussions. My first brush
with DBS was also my first brush with true antiSemitism, and it changed how I walk about not only my
campus, but the city I’ve grown up in. Wearing a
kippah became a risky move. Mystere brought upon
Jewish students and residents of our community by the
followers and proponents of BDS is hateful ideology.
It’s definitely not the way to peace, and
unfortunately my story is not unique. Colleagues of
mine from across New York City especially in Brooklyn
College have been intimidated, threatened and even
staked by BDS supporters simply because they disagree
and believe that the one Jewish state deserves to
exist. We once reached out to the President of SJP
while we were there. She was actually removed from
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this room earlier, and she said she wouldn’t come to
a cooperative peace dinner featuring many clubs
because there would be Israelis there. I believe
strongly that we can’t allow this movement, which is
regularly targeted hatred conditions, and in some
cases violence towards Jews to work and function
while we stay silent. With anti-Semitism rising
worldwide, we must at least use our voices and say no
to BDS and no to the division and fear it breeds, and
focus on cooperation and peace between people. Thank
you very much.
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: Do we have any
questions from the council members? Thank you so
much for your time, for your patience. This morning
I watched you all sit here very patiently, and I
appreciate that, and I appreciate you work today.
AL JONES: Thank you.
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: I’m going to call
up the next panel. Joel Covell, Assaf Calderon
(sp?), Rabbi Mordecai Ruberman (sp?), Sitti Galli
(sp?) and Michael Letwin (sp?) [background comments]
Okay, that’s alright, we—that happens. If someone
has already left, that’s okay. We can—we’ll call up
the next person. So, if your name has been called,
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come on up, a panel of four. [background comments]
Alright, it was our panel size the last time. We’ll
stick with this. Thank you again. Again, we’re
going to—again, if I could just start by saying I saw
all of you also wait very patiently. Thank you for
staying, and now I’m interested in hearing what you
have to say. Please begin.
SITTI GALLI: Thank you. My name is
Sitti Galli(sp?). I’m here with Jewish Voice for
Peace. I am a Jew. I’m a New Yorker. I’m an
Israeli. I’m pretty sure I’m the only Israeli who
would be testifying her technically with a passport,
and I’m here to educate some of us on the experience
that would lead one to become a young nationalist to
and advocate to BDS. [coughs] Today, I’ll share a
bit about myself with you. I was born and raised in
Israel. When I was young we moved to an exclusively
Jewish settlement in the West Bank. My dad
demolished homes in the military with Caterpillar
built tractors, which is among the companies that we
boycott. My grandfathers fought in wars an as a
young woman my mother was in the Intelligence Corps.
I was–I had a very Israeli upbringing. I was raised
to learn and repeat a morbid altruism, which to this
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day I believe encapsulates the dehumanizing policies
used to sustained the occupation. I learned that
good Arab is a dead Arab. After soccer matches, we
Israeli boys expressed our enthusiasm with chants
such death to the Arabs. As I grew up, military life
enthralled me. I aspired to be an elite open street
(sic) commander and rack up as many dead bodies under
my name next to the best soldier. I remember sitting
with my friends trying to compare which of our dads
were Palestinians more? Which of—which was more
elite? Which was a part of the more violent
operations? Which father killed more of them? I was
bred within hate and it blinded me to the crimes and
violence perpetrated in my name. Today, I see the
impacts such inculcation has on those I grew up with.
I see the tantalizing racism that binds the political
imagination parts of the young and the old. I see a
nation building for sustaining it’s powerful position
to remain on top of the Palestinian people with their
studded boots pressing hard on their dignity. I ask
you to find courage and resist this resolution. In
the name of Hannah Arendt, a Jewish thinker, “Courage
liberates men from their worry about life for the
worry of the freedom of the world.”
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COMMITTEE ON CONTRACTS 175
JOEL COVELL: [off mic] Thank you very
much. I’d like to thank everyone—[on mic] Oh, is
that better? Yes. I have, I’m Joel Covell and I
wrote this morning about 5 o’clock, and it’s like 300
words and it doesn’t work. I’ll just give you an
opening and then I’ll ramble a bit and you can throw
me out. The, um—it’s a joke. Harry, overlaid his
garish humor about the relation of Israel to the
United States. Question: Why don’t we just make
Israel the 51st State? Answer: Because then you
would have only two senators, and I think that tells
us a lot about the nature of this country, and also
tells us a lot about the nature of this inquiry, and
what I’ve heard today because I haven’t heard
anything today about the relationship of Israel the
United States or Zionist politics to Raja politics.
You go on and on about that, but it’s surely not
trivial. It’s obviously not trivial when we’re
talking about the city of New York and its political
gathering. Who’s—who’s buying who off, and so on and
so forth. There are many, many incidents, many
anecdotes about that, and obviously I have to brush
the second aside. Mostly, I would love to spend an
hour or two discussing the analysis of this book,
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COMMITTEE ON CONTRACTS 176
which is called Overcoming Zionism published in 2007,
and it’s very interesting to run into the man, you
know his name was Sy, but he was the official of
Standard Bus, and he was—he was considered by the
University of Michigan Press and about after a few
months he started receiving a series of scurrilous
and totally blaspheme, you know, comments on this
book. It was of no merit, it was anti-Semitic, it
was totally wrong, but never any evidence at all
presented to his book. Never went in the View (sic)
but the cowardly editor Chairman of the University of
Michigan Press removed this book from circulation
because of the pressure that Stand With Us has. So
you can see that this is not of that consequence.
Mostly the book was restored, but basically freedom
of expression was severely curtailed by this attack,
and not a word, needlessly to say, were not in this
network or the embeddedness of Zionists institutions,
Zionists processes of thought within American
academia, and that—that’s just talking about
politics. We should also talk about American media.
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: [interposing] I’m
sorry. Could you please wrap it up?
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COMMITTEE ON CONTRACTS 177
JOEL COVELL: Uh-huh. Well, I can wrap
it up, and it’s going to be wrapped up any how for
me. So I’m finished, but I would just want to leave
you with that, and say that my principle conclusion
of this book is that Israel is not a legitimate
state. It’s a very unusual state that bears very
detailed and in-depth political, historical,
psychological understanding, which I can’t give now,
but maybe we can think of. That’s for me.
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: Thank you. Sir.
MICHAEL LETWIN: [off mic] Thank you my—
[on mic] my name is Michael Letwin. I’m a former
president of the Association of Legal Aid Attorneys,
UAW Local 2325. I’m also co-founder of Labor for
Palestine and Jews for Palestinian Right of Return,
and I’m on the leadership body of the U.S. Committee
for the Academic and Cultural Boycott of Israel. As
a life long supporter of racial justice, as a public
defender in Brooklyn for more than 30 years, a
supporter of the Movement for Black Lives and native
American protest at this moment at Standing Rock, it
is only natural that I’m here today with many other
New Yorkers to condemn the Resolution 1058-A as
unconstitutional attack on those who support Boycott,
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COMMITTEE ON CONTRACTS 178
Divestment Sanctions, which has gained momentum in
recent years particularly in the wake of Israel’s
massacre of 2,200 Palestinians in Gaza, a crime that
was committed with the use of $3.1 billion bipartisan provided, U.S. bullets, bombs and white
phosphorous, something in criminal law we would call
being an accessory to murder. I was here in this
very building in 1990 when Nelson Mandela spoke as a
guest on honor on the steps of City Hall, and he was
an honored guest by this city, by the Council, by the
Mayor. The same Nelson Mandela who supported BDS and
who in 1997 said, “We know too well that our freedom
is incomplete without the freedom of the
Palestinians.” So it is time to stand up to say
quite clearly that anti-Zionism is not anti-Semitic.
It is anti-racist, and I say that as a Jewish person.
I say that as a supporter of human rights everywhere,
and whether it’s the NYPD and the issue surrounding
the abuse of the NYPD of the citizens of color of
this city. Whether it’s apartheid Israel and its
abuse of Palestinians, it’s time for this body to
stop acting like a White Citizens Council and stop—
start acting like the New York City Council. Thank
you.
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COMMITTEE ON CONTRACTS 179
HANI GHAZI: My name is Hani Ghazi, I’m—
my name is Hani Ghazi. I’m here to speak on behalf
of Adalah New York. [background comment][coughs]
Okay. I’m here to speak on behalf of Adalah New
York, the New York Campaign for the Boycott of Israel
to express our deep concern with the wording of this
resolution that Mr. Cohen read, and especially
because it states that this movement delegitimizes
Israel and it fails to mention Palestinians and it
fails to mention international law completely in this
resolution, and I’m here to point out that we target
companies that profit from violating international
law. Israeli and non-Israeli alike, companies that
profit from practices that were found illegal under
international law. [coughs] For example, illegal
confiscation of expropriation of Palestinian land in
order to expand settlement expansion—to expand
settlement construction in the West Bank is illegal
under international law and if there is a non-Israeli
company that is involved in the home demolitions and
in the uprooting of all olive trees and depriving
Palestinians civilians of their source of income, we
are going to target that company with our boycott
campaign, and I call on the member of City Council to
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COMMITTEE ON CONTRACTS 180
avail themselves through the perspective of the
oppressed civilian indigenous population [coughs] of
Palestine, none of which of the members of the panel
that were pro this resolution are. Avail yourself to
the perspective of the indigenous population of
Palestine, and stand on the right side of history
because the BDS Movement targets specific companies
and organizations that violate international law and
it has specific campaigns that point out why they are
targeted by the BDS Movement, which makes the
argument about the cell phones not about an argument
because it’s a little target. (sic) Thank you.
[bell]
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: Thank you very
much. I think there’s a Council—Council Member
Lancman has a question.
COUNCIL MEMBER LANCMAN: Well, I just
want to make the observation for anti-Semitic tropes.
This panel really takes the cake from accusation that
the reason that this elected body is supporting this
resolution, you know, who’s paying off who and Israel
should be the 51st state, but it couldn’t be the 51st
state because they’d only have two senators, all the
mythology about Jewish power and Jewish control that
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COMMITTEE ON CONTRACTS 181
so well in—in two minutes. The idea that there’s a
state, it’s my turn, sir. You had your turn. The
statement that Zionism is—is-is-is—is racism, if I’m
not mischaracterizing what you said. I don’t think I
am. There are people who lament, and wish that we
could go back to the days when the United Nations
disgraced itself with its Zionism is Racism
Resolution, but it is almost universally recognized
as the low point for a body that competes on a
regular basis for low point. So anybody who adheres
to that view should be rightfully ashamed of
themselves. And sir, on the end, I would just point
out to you that if you had the opportunity to read
the resolution, it actually says, Whereas, both
Israelis and Palestinians have the right to live in
safe and secure space free from fear—free from fear
and violence with mutual recognition. This is a
resolution that is supported by many people who
believe strongly in a fair and just two-state
solutions. The Palestinians are—are mentioned in
here, and I would just conclude I’m not quite sure
what you meant, but I think I am, by referencing the
indigenous population of Israel as if Jews are not
there indigenous to the land of Israel. I think you
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COMMITTEE ON CONTRACTS 182
should really examine the fats of that statement, and
I think that you should really consider whether or
not you’re looking at this from—from an honest and a
fair perspective. The Jews have lived in the land of
Israel from time immemorial except for those periods
when they were forced out, but they’re there now.
Thank you.
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: I’m going to—
Council Member Levin has a question. I’m going to
ask Council Member Cohen to take over for just a
short bit. Thank you.
COUNCIL MEMBER LEVIN: Thank you very
much Madam Chair. This is a question I asked the—a
previous panel, and again, I’m not being coy, naïve
or provocative here. Do you believe—first is this—
the members of this panel support a two-state
solution with Israel as a sovereign Jewish homeland
and a sovereign Palestinian state side by side in coexistence? Is that something that this panel
supports?
HANI GHAZI: This is a diverse panel.
It’s a variety of opinions, I’m assuming, but if you
want, we could each probably address that
individually.
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COMMITTEE ON CONTRACTS 183
COUNCIL MEMBER LEVIN: I mean–
HANI GHAZI: [interposing] Right.
COUNCIL MEMBER LEVIN: –this-this-I
couldn’t quite get a very clear answer from the brief
panels this afternoon. Is this a position of BDS,
this global BDS Movement?
HANI GHAZI: So like today, we were
composed of a variety of organizations that came from
different angels.
COUNCIL MEMBER LEVIN: But—but I know
that. So the Global BDS Movement has a—has a—has a—
has a list of—there’s a—there’s a clear–
HANI GHAZI: You were told they didn’t
take a stand on whether or not it is—it will be a
one-state or a two-state solution.
COUNCIL MEMBER LEVIN: But—so then, so
then, so then the global BDS Movement is not opposed
to a two-state solution–
HANI GHAZI: I didn’t say that was–
COUNCIL MEMBER LEVIN: That—that includes
a–
HANI GHAZI: –before and I’ll speak for
myself, not for the Global BDS Movement. I am
opposed to a two-state solution.
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COMMITTEE ON CONTRACTS 184
COUNCIL MEMBER LEVIN: You are opposed?
HANI GHAZI: But I am not opposed to a
one-state solution that stands on a pillar on
equality and dignity for all–
COUNCIL MEMBER LEVIN: [interposing] I
know, but I—I—I hear that, but, but, but I’ll say
that the position of the United States, the position
of the UN, the position of the State of Israel and
the position of the PLO recognize that there is a—a—
the position is to get to two-state solution. That
has been the bedrock of the peace process going back
to the ‘70s.
HANI GHAZI: Have you looked at the
architectural expansions of settlements in the last
40 years and whether there is a viable Palestinian
state in the core and form of occupation? Are you
aware of that? Are you aware of the hundreds of
checkpoints that move around constantly and reshape
the West Bank?
COUNCIL MEMBER LEVIN: I’m—I’m—I’m–
HANI GHAZI: [interposing] No.
COUNCIL MEMBER LEVIN: –asking the
question.
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COMMITTEE ON CONTRACTS 185
COUNCIL MEMBER LEVIN: I—I—you asked the—
I’m asking the question: Does anybody here believe
in a two-state solution.
JOE COVELL: [off mic] I believe in a
two-state, that is proposed, but it actually—
COUNCIL MEMBER COHEN: [interposing] Sir,
could you use your mic?
JOE COVELL: [on mic] –-that raised
Israel to the level of Apartheid South Africa, which
is a two-state solution. Each—
COUNCIL MEMBER LEVIN: [interposing] So
you do not believe in–
JOE COVELL: –of benches says (sic)
COUNCIL MEMBER LEVIN: [interposing] It
can be a very–
JOE COVELL: –a little state that had as
much–
COUNCIL MEMBER LEVIN: -quick—he gave—he
gave us the same answer.
JOE COVELL: –as much sovereignty as is
offered to the Palestinian state in the prevailing
states in the–
COUNCIL MEMBER LEVIN: [interposing] And
you do not believe in two-state solution.
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COMMITTEE ON CONTRACTS 186
JOE COVELL: I certainly do not think
that the two-state solution as is currently talked
about is anything more than–
COUNCIL MEMBER LEVIN: [interposing] But
it’s been talked about for 40 years.
JOE COVELL: –and convenient idiocy to—
to provoke endless discussion and avoid the need to
come to grips with the questions posed by Zionist
Israel.
MICHAEL LETWIN: I’m happy to address
that question, Council Member.
COUNCIL MEMBER LEVIN: Okay.
MICHAEL LETWIN: First, I just recall
what your premise is. There is no peace process.
I’ve heard that referred to a number of times here
today. What there is, is the continual theft of
Palestinian land since well before 1948 especially
feeding off of 1948 that expelled 750,000 indigenous
Palestinians and replaced them in large part with
people who had no immediate or in many cases any
historical relationship to the—what became the
settler colony of Israel. So I’m going to answer
your question—your question. So as anti—so as an
anti-Zionist Jew, I do not support any apartheid
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COMMITTEE ON CONTRACTS 187
solution, which is what the so-called two-state
solution is because what the two-state solution
supposedly calls for is the separation of people
based on race and ethnicity. I don’t support that in
South Africa–
COUNCIL MEMBER LEVIN: It calls for two–
MICHAEL LETWIN: [interposing] I’m sorry.
I don’t support that in South Africa. I don’t
support it Mississippi or Alabama as—as white people
in this country often did in those years. I don’t
support it in New York City, and I don’t support it
in–
COUNCIL MEMBER LEVIN: [interposing] But
it is—it is–
MICHAEL LETWIN: –this for Palenstine.
COUNCIL MEMBER LEVIN: –it’s been the
fact that’s setting at a low. (sic)
MICHAEL LETWIN: [interposing] But I’m—–
I’m not finished with my answer, Council Member. You
asked a question. I’m answering it quite directly I
think. I’m not avoiding anything.
COUNCIL MEMBER LEVIN: Okay, but the
answer is no.
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COMMITTEE ON CONTRACTS 188
MICHAEL LETWIN: So I mean, so I told you
the answer was no and I’ll—and I’ll further explain
that I don’t support an apartheid solution in any
country, and—and as far as the United Nations and the
so-called International Consensus, the United Nations
and the International Consensus so-called and the
United States certainly has no right to determine
what happens to indigenous Palestinian land any more
than it has a right to determine what happens to
indigenous land in this country, which we’re sitting
on right now, and which Native Americans in Standing
Rock, North Carolina are fighting on right now to
stop it from happening to them, and you should be on
that same—you should be on the same side as they are.
COUNCIL MEMBER LEVIN: But, sir, you’re—
you’re—you exist in and you’re in a U.S., a United
States citizen. You’re existing on that–
MICHAEL LETWIN: [interposing] Yes.
COUNCIL MEMBER LEVIN: –you’re existing,
you’re benefitting just in your daily life from—from
the United States of America as a colonization
exists. I mean, you’re—you—you take–
MICHAEL LETWIN: [interposing] Right, and
I—and I will do everything–
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COMMITTEE ON CONTRACTS 189
COUNCIL MEMBER LEVIN: –you take, you
participate in American civil life.
MICHAEL LETWIN: –I can to remedy that,
which is why I support Standing Rock. So do you?
COUNCIL MEMBER LEVIN: That’s how you–
MICHAEL LETWIN: Do you support the
movement for Black lives.
COUNCIL MEMBER COHEN: [Gavel] Council
Member Levin.
COUNCIL MEMBER LEVIN: But—but do you
support the movement for public civil rights?
COUNCIL MEMBER COHEN: Council Member
Levin. Council Member Levin, do you have any
question?
MICHAEL LETWIN: Yes, sir, are you?
COUNCIL MEMBER LEVIN: And—and I want to
point out that you—you–
COUNCIL MEMBER COHEN: Folks.
COUNCIL MEMBER LEVIN: –in your daily—by
participating in American civil society, United
States civil society, you are, in fact, benefitting
from—from the United States, which was a European
colonization–
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COMMITTEE ON CONTRACTS 190
MICHAEL LETWIN: [interposing] That stole
it away from the Native Americans, right?
COUNCIL MEMBER LEVIN: –a fact of many
years? I’m sorry?
MICHAEL LETWIN: It stole the land from
the Native Americans. They enslaved AfricanAmericans to work this lane.
COUNCIL MEMBER LEVIN: [interposing] But
you are, in fact, benefitting from that.
MICHAEL LETWIN: No, but let’s just make
sure we understand the premises. Do you agree with
me that that’s what happened, and are you going to
stand on the right side of history in terms of trying
to rectify those injustices? That’s the question,
sir, that’s where we see what it is.
COUNCIL MEMBER LEVIN; The—the—I mean so
the answer—the answer is no you don’t believe in a
two-state solution?
MICHAEL LETWIN: I’ve—I’ve made that
quite clear, sir.
COUNCIL MEMBER LEVIN: Okay.
COUNCIL MEMBER COHEN: That’s clear to
everybody. Thank you. I’d like to thank the panel.
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COMMITTEE ON CONTRACTS 191
Thankyou very much. Thank you. We’re going to call
the next panel. Thank you very much.
HANI GHAZI: I didn’t get a chance to
address to address the one state, two state, can I?
[background comments]
COUNCIL MEMBER COHEN: The next panel
will be Alex Bronso, Charlie Bernhart, Jacob Adler,
Helen Friedman, Michael Gottlieb and Rabbi Jonathan
Pearl. [background comments, pause] Jeffrey
Shreibwalt (sp?) Pamela Sporen, Saji Gowan. [pause]
Alice Storm Sutter, Imam Abdul Bazzi (sp?), Rabbi
David Feldman, Rabbi Yisorel Dovid Weiss, James
McLaughlin. Ma’am, would you like to start on the
right or on my right? Please.
PAM SPOREN FOSTER: Hello, my name is Pam
Sporen Foster. I am a 30-year long resident of the
Norwood section of the Bronx. I’m also the wife of
someone who served for 10 years as chair of Community
Board 7. So I’m embedded in the life of New York
City and the Bronx. Before I read my statement, I
want to say that I think that this hearing has been
held in the most unprofessional manner beginning from
when members of the panel were on the cell phones
texting while Mr. Charles Barron was speaking. The—
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COMMITTEE ON CONTRACTS 192
I’m questioning why people come and go? Why were
some people late and then leave? Are you really
interested in hearing what citizens of New York have
to say? I’m also questioning why there’s a lack of
diversity in the people who have remained here
throughout, and it’s overwhelmingly people who are in
favor of this resolution. So I really question the
integrity of this hearing when you don’t have people
who are asking any questions critical. I also would
like to point out that the questions that you have
asked panelists who—who support the resolution have
only served to give them more time to speak. And the
questions you’ve asked of people opposed to it have
only been provocative or asinine like the one about
cell phones. As a Jewish New Yorker, resident of the
Norwood section of the Bronx I want to tell you that
I vehemently oppose this resolution, as you know.
The authors of the—of the resolution are either illinformed or intentionally regurgitating false charges
of anti-Semitism to provide cover for its human
rights abuses against Palestinians. I’m going to
stop my statement. I’ve submitted it to you but and
I’m going to finish what I have to say even though
that rang, and it will be short. But I want you guys
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COMMITTEE ON CONTRACTS 193
to realize, and you were so disrespectful of Linda
Sarsour when she spoke. But I want you to know is
that besides the few seemingly handpicked people who
are speaking in—in favor of this resolution, I want
you to realize how many people were here at 10:00
a.m. on a—on a week day morning taking off from work
who were here overwhelmingly opposed to this
resolution. You have to realize that, overwhelmingly
Jewish here, and you have to realize. You can bang
your things, but you have to realize that you’re on
the wrong side of history ,and we’re growing, we
growing. Thank you.
ALICE STERNS-SUTTER: Do I go? Okay.
I’m Alice Sterns-Sutter. I’m going to second all of
what Pam just said. I’m a Jewish New Yorker from
Northern Manhattan, and a nurse—a nurse practitioner.
I want to introduce you to Lillian Pollack. She was
Brook’s—she was our 101-year-old raging granny and a
member of the Women in Black who recently died, and
she wrote a poem, which I’m going to read part of,
quote, “Cousin Do Not Come” and it’s about the
horrors of daily life in Gaza. I’ll start with that
and I hope I have time for the ret of my statement.
She said, “Cousin Do Not Come, Cousin do not come.
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COMMITTEE ON CONTRACTS 194
Do you wonder? Listen, listen, boom, boom, the roll
of thunder. We are afraid, we are afraid all the
time not knowing when or where another Israeli drone
will follow and target us with it’s lethal load.
There is no safe place. More will die. We know not
when. We are crying. What is happening to us?
There is no future. All of our friend are silent.
Gone. That’s just the beginning of the poem. I’ll
read my little spiel on the Boycott, Divestment
Sanctions. The Boycott, Divestment Sanctions
Movement came out of a social movement of Palestinian
people. They are people who decades of home
demolitions, land seizures, detentions, and
destruction of olive trees and farmland, denial of
water rights, and many violent attacks. The BDS
Movement is a people-to-people attempt to secure
human rights for those whom the United States and the
global community has ignored. It does not
delegitimize the State of Israel. It holds the state
accountable for its human rights violations. Many
Israeli—many Israeli human rights activists [bell]
support this strategy in the hope that it will relief
from the repressive right wing brutal government.
Our U.S. government provides over $3 billion, well
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COMMITTEE ON CONTRACTS 195
over $3 billion a year to the Israeli government, and
I’ll end by saying that there’s a coalition of women
in Israel who did research to figure out which
companies needed be boycotted, and they are part of
the Boycott, Divestment Sanctions Movement, and there
are people who believe in a two-state solution who
are part of the Boycott, Divestment Sanctions
Movement. It’s a diverse movement. It has many,
many different people on many different levels.
Thank you.
IMAM ABDUL BAZZI: I’ve been given only
two minutes. I’m going to defer most of that time to
my friend to my right because I think what he has to
say being Jewish is very important. But I would like
to say to the City Council it is fundamentally
undemocratic to prevent elected–
COUNCIL MEMBER COHEN: I’m—I’m sorry,
sir, could you—could you give us your name?
IMAM ADDUL BAZZI: Imam Abdul Bazzi.
COUNCIL MEMBER COHEN: Thank you.
IMAM ABDUL BAZZI: You—you called my
name. [laughs] It is fundamentally undemocratic to
prevent elected local Council people from making
ethical choices about what policies to follow. I
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COMMITTEE ON CONTRACTS 196
would like to bring your attention to what Jimmy
Carter wrote when he says, Palestine: Peace not
apartheid. This is the crux of the matter. This is
what we want in Israel, and this is what we want in
the world. We want peace not apartheid. BDS is only
addressing the concerns of the world because the
Palestinians’ voice is not being heard. The
Palestinians have been silenced. Our political
figures have been, as my brother said, bought off, or
they have been pressured to make statements in
support of one particular aspect of it. If the
United States is to be fair and impartial as a
political power in this whole process, then it has to
be neutral and not take one side or the other. This
in essence is violating my rights as a citizen of
this country to say where my money goes, and what
issues I support and what issues I don’t support.
You’re violating my First Amendment rights. Thank
you. [pause]
RABBI ISRAEL DAVID WEIS: With the help
of the Almighty, first I would like to know, being
back I had four colleagues I believe who are on the
list who have—
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COMMITTEE ON CONTRACTS 197
COUNCIL MEMBER COHEN: Again, sir, could
you just please identify yourself for the record.
RABBI YISOEL DOVID WEISS: Rabbi Yisorel
Dovid Weiss and Jews Against Zionism. We had four
rabbis here who were on the list. They were sitting
up there. They were sent out. They were quiet.
They were polite and they were sent out, and they
pleaded to come back in and speak. I would like to
know if I can have their minutes to speak? [pause]
COUNCIL MEMBER COHEN: I’m—I’m sorry.
Thank you, but you take your time.
RABBI YISOEL DOVID WEISS: Well, it
doesn’t—it really doesn’t do any justice two minutes
to try to speak about this sorrowful subject. I will
just therefore—we will submit with God’s help our
statements later. I just would like to say, though,
there is a community right across Manhattan,
Williamsburg, Brooklyn, and again I pray to the
Almighty he should bestow upon His truth, His truth
that I may convey his message and sanctify his name.
this community across the—right across the
Williamsburg Bridge is the most, the largest
concentration of religious Jews in the city and maybe
secondly in the world, and there is that one Israeli
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COMMITTEE ON CONTRACTS 198
flag if you will note, the they’ll led by—by some
holy rabbis and some distinguished beautiful
community and they as already for many, many years,
68 years they’ve been boycotting Zionist products at
a large—to a large degree and that is a fact you can
check. We are not anti-semites and we don’t hate
Jews. We are Jews, but we are being hated. We have
been hated since the Zionist state comes because the
Torah doesn’t permit us to us to have a Jewish state,
and the Torah does not permit us to oppress the
people especially a people that have provided for us
a home, a safe haven when you can save inquisition
and by World War II and so forth. My father escaped
from Hungary while his parents were sent to
Auschwitz. We know what it means suffering. It
would be the flip side if you would be the
Palestinians or it would be the Palestinians in
control and the Jews would be the ones who would be
living in the West Bank and so forth, and there would
be a voice here who would come and they would have to
so—so couth and so—so respectable and speaking with
a—with such an icy heart then you would call your
brothers. You would call your brothers blood thirsty
and murderers. They’re speaking because their hearts
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COMMITTEE ON CONTRACTS 199
are crying. We cry with them. We cry. We are
humiliated because you are Jews and you are laughing
and you are glib and you’re not surrounded about
their suffering. We cry with their suffering, and
you are creating an anti-BDS movement. You’re—you’re
creating a pressure cooker that they explode, God
forbid, and there will be more anti-Semitism.
COUNCIL MEMBER COHEN: Thank you—thank
you for you testimony.
RABBI YISOEL DOVID WEISS: Just bear
with me one more minute to say there’s one more
thing. What happens if you see that there’s never in
history a time of peace where it hasn’t been such an
exacerbation of anti-Semitism. Since Zionism we have
been living and growing with that and human rights
groups in every Arab and Muslim country.
COUNCIL MEMBER COHEN: Sir, sir, your
time is up.
RABBI YISOEL DOVID WEISS: This is
bringing bloodshed. You ae causing bloodshed by this
referendum.
COUNCIL MEMBER COHEN: Thank you for your
testimony.
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COMMITTEE ON CONTRACTS 200
RABBI YISOEL DOVID WEISS: And I am
going to sit down and mourn by this referendum.
COUNCIL MEMBER COHEN: Council Member
Greenfield.
COUNCIL MEMBER GREENFIELD: Mr. Weiss,
let’s have a conversation. Oh, Mr. Weiss, why don’t
you sit up and have a conversation with us. Let’s
have—let’s talk about what you’re discussion. Mr.
Weiss, let me ask you a question: When Hitler killed
six million Jews was there a State of Israel? I
thought you just said that there was—Let’s have a
conversation. Sit back down, be a man. Let’s have a
conversation.
RABBI YISOEL DOVID WEISS: [off mic]
Have a conversation. Have a conversation?
COUNCIL MEMBER GREENFIELD: Let’s have-I
asked you a question.
RABBI YISOEL DOVID WEISS: Your, oh, you
rabbis.
COUNCIL MEMBER GREENFIELD: The first
question. I asked you a question.
RABBI YISOEL DOVID WEISS: Every single
rabbi said. That’s just for pain–
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COMMITTEE ON CONTRACTS 201
COUNCIL MEMBER GREENFIELD: I asked you
to answer Mr. Weiss.
RABBI YISOEL DOVID WEISS: –you’re
because against that.
COUNCIL MEMBER GREENFIELD: Answer the
question.
RABBI YISOEL DOVID WEISS: Against your
rabbi, against Zion.
COUNCIL MEMBER GREENFIELD: [speaking
foreign language] Answer the question.
RABBI YISOEL DOVID WEISS: Nina Hertzan
said that the–
COUNCIL MEMBER GREENFIELD: [interposing]
I’m asking you a question.
RABBI YISOEL DOVID WEISS: Yes, I’m going
heard the question.
COUNCIL MEMBER GREENFIELD: [interposing]
Was there a State of Israel when six million Jews
were killed yes or no?
RABBI YISOEL DOVID WEISS: I will answer
the way I want to answer.
COUNCIL MEMBER GREENFIELD: [interposing]
Answer the question.
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COMMITTEE ON CONTRACTS 202
RABBI YISOEL DOVID WEISS: Your
appearance.
COUNCIL MEMBER GREENFIELD: [interposing]
It’s a fact.
RABBI YISOEL DOVID WEISS: So let’s hear
your views.
COUNCIL MEMBER GREENFIELD: Who do you
speak for Mr. Weiss?
RABBI YISOEL DOVID WEISS: Our rabbis
are good, and I’m forced to go them.
COUNCIL MEMBER GREENFIELD: Who do you
speak for? You don’t represent Satma.
RABBI YISOEL DOVID WEISS: [speaking
foreign language]
COUNCIL MEMBER GREENFIELD: Don’t lie.
You don’t represent anyone in Williamsburg.
RABBI YISOEL DOVID WEISS: We have done
those in every single–
COUNCIL MEMBER GREENFIELD: You live in
Monsey.
RABBI YISOEL DOVID WEISS: I’m in–
COUNCIL MEMBER GREENFIELD: You don’t
even live in New York City.
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COMMITTEE ON CONTRACTS 203
RABBI YISOEL DOVID WEISS: Let me answer
you.
COUNCIL MEMBER GREENFIELD: Are the same
Mr. Weiss who attended the Holocaust Conference in
Iran–
RABBI YISOEL DOVID WEISS: [interposing]
Excuse me. Let me answer you.
COUNCIL MEMBER GREENFIELD: –that was
anti-Holocaust?
RABBI YISOEL DOVID WEISS: I won’t
answer you. I won’t answer you.
COUNCIL MEMBER GREENFIELD: Answer me.
RABBI YISOEL DOVID WEISS: Jewish people
before the Holocaust.
COUNCIL MEMBER GREENFIELD: Answer me,
answer me.
RABBI YISOEL DOVID WEISS: All the
Holocaust are—he stood up in opposition to Zionism
and they were—they were oppressed and it terrorized
them. It impacted them.
COUNCIL MEMBER GREENFIELD: Was there a
State of Israel–
RABBI YISOEL DOVID WEISS: [interposing]
He pleaded with you let me answer you.
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COMMITTEE ON CONTRACTS 204
COUNCIL MEMBER GREENFIELD: –was there a
State of Israel when the Nazis killed your
grandparents?
RABBI YISOEL DOVID WEISS: Let me answer
you. Let me answer you.
COUNCIL MEMBER GREENFIELD: That’s for
all. The answer is no.
RABBI YISOEL DOVID WEISS: Well, we
pleaded with the United Nations, but we don’t want
war in the state.
COUNCIL MEMBER GREENFIELD: [interposing]
Do you represent anyone except for a handful of crazy
people.
FEMALE SPEAKER: Is this a Cartwright
(sic) interrogation–
COUNCIL MEMBER GREENFIELD: [interposing]
Do you represent anyone except for a handful of crazy
people.
FEMALE SPEAKER: I know because my father
was called before Iraq and in 1984 and this sounds
almost like what happened to him.
COUNCIL MEMBER GREENFIELD: And the Rabbi
could speak for himself.
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COMMITTEE ON CONTRACTS 205
RABBI YISOEL DOVID WEISS: Our rabbis are
being brutally—[pause]
COUNCIL MEMBER GREENFIELD: I’m asking
you a question. Can you answer the question? Who do
you represent, Mr. Weiss? You spoke on behalf of
Williamsburg, but I know every major leader in
Williamsburg, and you’re not a leader in
Williamsburg. Who do you represent? [background
comments] Who do you represent? Who do you
represent? Who do you represent? You represent two
dozen mentally unstable individuals. That’s all, and
you are the leader of this mentally unstable cult,
and I wish you [speaking foreign language] and it’s
sad and that you would come here and make a [speaking
foreign language] and I really hope that you get the
mental help that you need. Do not pretend to
represent my community. Don’t pretend to represent
my community.
COUNCIL MEMBER COHEN: [interposing]
[gavel] Alright, thank you, thank you, Council
Member Greenfield.
COUNCIL MEMBER GREENFIELD: [interposing]
You do not represent my community.
COUNCIL MEMBER COHEN: [gavel] Hey.
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COMMITTEE ON CONTRACTS 206
COUNCIL MEMBER GREENFIELD: Who elected
you? Who appointed you?
COUNCIL MEMBER COHEN: [interposing]
Gentlemen.
COUNCIL MEMBER GREENFIELD: Who made you
a rabbi? Who are you? You’re nobody.
COUNCIL MEMBER COHEN: Council Member
Greenfield. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very
much for your testimony. Can we call—can we call the
next. Thank you. Can we call the next panel?
COUNCIL MEMBER GREENFIELD: [interposing]
You represent no one but yourself. Thanks for coming
and now you can lay down back on the ground.
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: With apologies to
Council Member Levin and Grodenchik who wanted to ask
questions. We’re going to move on to the next panel.
Thank you, Council Member Cohen for taking over while
I needed to step away. Next, we’re going to hear
from Marla Earling, Laura Castro, Deborah Taylor,
Marshall Douglas, David Ashford, Jordan Wook (sp?).
I’ve—I’ve got a few more names and let’s all continue
our lovely patience. Jordan Wook, Assaf Calderon,
Marty Goodman, Shikamad Nobarak (sp?) Okay, now
again, these are all the slips that I have. If
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COMMITTEE ON CONTRACTS 207
someone—come De Gilda Bret, if you would like to
speak, why don’t—you’ve waited so patiently. Why
don’t you grab a slip? You filled out one. I am so
sorry. You can imagine what’s been going on here
today, but what I would ask you to do is fill out
another one, and I’m going to call you right up. So
you will absolutely be heard. Is there anyone else
sitting here who does not—who would like to testify
who has not filled out a sip? If you have not heard
your name, I’m not calling you up. So now fair
warning it’s your last chance to fill out a slip.
Okay, these are not here. We’re going to start with
three gentlemen who are here. Sir, would you being?
CHIEKH AHMED: Sure. It’s on?
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: And if I could
just ask you in starting, to restate your name
because I probably screwed it up. Please.
CHEIKH AHMED: My name is Cheikh Ahmed,
C-H-E-I-K-H A-H-M-E-D. Of course I support the right
to buy a car any state, any institution whenever it
the person or the or the—any American deems it
necessary. So that’s why it has to be reserved to
those who support BDS or support any kind of buy car
that doesn’t target individuals. That’s one. Two. I
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COMMITTEE ON CONTRACTS 208
don’t need to explain why I didn’t know that BDS
actually that much until a couple of months ago, and
today I was given a lesson about BDS, and that is the
best argument for the BDS. It’s not just the
diversity of the people who testify today. It’s the
majority of these Jewish people. I am Muslim. I am
a Black Arab. These people destroyed a lot of images
in my mind as did the JVP last year when I got in
contact JVP. The best argument for BDS is we all sit
here. The best argument against this reso—this
resolution is the Jewish people here. I have—I can
actually speak to ask one question to you, Chairman.
The question is how from a leader’s perspective, how
did you allow anyone on this panel to be called names
by someone of your own council member? How did you
not just even comment and say this not appropriate
when the councilman called Sister Grantover (sic)
that she’s anti-Semitic, right? She’s an Arab.
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: Thank you.
CHEIKH AHMED: Thank you.
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: Next.
JORDAN VOKE: Jordan Voke. I actually
signed up just a few minutes ago, and I was
responding to a question by one of the council
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COMMITTEE ON CONTRACTS 209
people, but before I do that a quick shout out to the
sergeant-at-arms who have been handling us and me
very well. Thank you. It got to the point where I
actually was—I think I may have reacted vocally to
the question of do you have a cell phone because the
that Israel helped to create the cell phone or that
Israel has more Nobel Prize winners in the countries
around it is to me irrelevant. What I am upset
about, and what I—why I’m involved with BDS is there
are specific actions that the State of Israel does in
particular to people on the West Bank, in particular
to children. If you have time, maybe you can looking
Defense for Children Palestine. On the West Bank
sometimes Palestinian children are arrested. It
occurs in the middle of the night. They’re brought
to a station. By the time they get there, they may
have some bruises. They don’t have their parents
with them. If a child living in the settlement also
on the West Bank is arrested it does not occur in the
middle of the night, the parents are permitted to
accompany. There is such a different treatment and,
in fact, the treatments of the young Palestinians
goes against all the human rights, the human rights
conventions that Israel has signed. So that’s why I
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COMMITTEE ON CONTRACTS 210
felt that the question about cell phone had nothing
to do—yes proud about that. That’s fine. It had
nothing to do with why I’m in favor of BDS. It’s
because of the policies and actions of the Israeli
government. Thank you.
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: Thank you very
much, sir.
MARSHALL DOUGLAS: Hi. My name is
Marshall Douglas, and I wanted to say that regardless
of the amount of amounted that goes on between Israel
and the United States and New York State, New York
City, regardless of the number of Jewish people in
New York, regardless of the cited relationship of the
City of New York to the State of Israel and
regardless of if—as Assemblyman Levine put it, they—
well I’m adding the word perceived interests of the
state. Regardless of all of those things, there is
no right. The City Council has no right to rescind
the Bill of Rights. Your resolution is—is a rescind
of the Bill—of the Bill of Rights, and the right to
free speech. You opened the session with a charge
that we were to respect free and open exchange of
ideas and to enter—enter into constructive dialogue.
But the very subject of the resolution being anti-BDS
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COMMITTEE ON CONTRACTS 211
is antithetical to that charge that you gave us. The
very discussion that’s going on here is antithetical
to the free and open exchange of ideas because it
attempts to shut them down. There is no compulsion
in the BDS Movement. It is a non violent movement.
The actions of people who follow BDS are voluntarily
entered into, and they’re acts of individual personal
conscience. What you have before you your resolution
is a prime and fundamental abridgement of the human
right to free speech. It can—it intends to punish
people for thought crimes. How a person spends their
money is their business. BDS is against the breaking
of international law, and against the conduct of
atrocities against the Palestinian people. It is the
right of every individual in this city, in the state
and in this country to oppose that and the City
Council has no business even considering a
resolution, which tires to block that or condemns it
even. Thank you.
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: Thank you.
Council Member Levin.
COUNCIL MEMBER LEVIN: Thank you, Madam
Chair. I—I want to ask this—this panel. So, and I—I
want to put this in same context. I deeply believe
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that all people of good conscience on both sides or
all sides of this discussion want peace as quickly as
it is achievable and that with peace comes respect
for everybody’s human rights. With peace comes
everybody’s safety. With peace comes everybody’s
prosperity for them and their children and their
grandchildren, but first there must be peace, and the
only real hope that we have for peace is a two-state
solution. And I want to ask this panel do you
believe in a two-state solution?
JORDAN VOKE: [Speaking Yiddish] Peace,
peace but there is no pace. Can you please define
approximately what the borders of the proposed
division are?
COUNCIL MEMBER LEVIN: I can’t because
I’m not in a position to do that, and I understand
where you’re going with this, okay. I—I understand
where you’re going with this.
JORDAN VOKE: Where am I going with it,
sir?
COUNCIL MEMBER LEVIN: Because about—
you’re going to ask—there’s the issue of settlement
buildings, and what’s taken place over the last—
during—during the Netanyahu government, and—and I’m
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not in anyway— I—I don’t support the expansion of
settlements that have happened under Netanyahu
government. What I’m asking for, though, I’m going
to ask you the—the basic fundamental question of do
you believe in the sovereign nation of Israel that is
a homeland for the Jews and a Palestinian state in
the West Bank in Gaza?
JORDAN VOKE: The second one I fee very
comfortable with. It’s the definition of Israel as a
homeland for Jews when there are many people who live
there who are not Jews, who have lived there for
generations, who continue to propop—to propagate. So
I can understand a potential geographic definition.
I don’t know that we would agree on it, but the
definition of the State of Israel as a Jewish state I
have difficult with that because of the people—other
people who live there have lived there, lived there
before ’48, lived there before 1900, live there
before 1800. That’s my difficulty with the second
part.
COUNCIL MEMBER LEVIN: Okay. Do you
believe that Israel has a right to exist as a state
of Israel?
JORDAN VOKE: Yes.
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COUNCIL MEMBER Levin: Along side a
Palestinian state?
JORDAN VOKE: If you’re asking me
personally I have no representation for any other–
COUNCIL MEMBER Levin: [interposing]
Sure.
JORDAN VOKE: Yeah. Yes.
COUNCIL MEMBER LEVIN: Okay, good. Okay,
I think that’s—I—I—I— Thank you.
JORDAN VOKE: You’re very welcome. It’s
my pleasure. I’m glad I have the chance to answer.
MARSHALL DOUGLAS: Uh-huh.
COUNCIL MEMBER LEVIN: Sir.
MARSHALL DOUGLAS: I’m trying to get my
mic around. The possibility of there being two
states has been foreclosed upon, and not by just as
you say by the Netanyahu government. It’s been the
police of Israel from the get-go to take as much
Palestinian land as they could possibly get away with
from the Palestinian people. So at this point, we
need to be championing a two-state solution. It’s
fairly disingenuous because it’s not something that’s
being contemplated by the Israeli government.
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COUNCIL MEMBER LEVIN: I could tell you
it’s certainly, it’s the stated policy of the United
States of America to achieve a two-state solution.
It’s just—it’s the stated policy of the United
Nations. It’s the stated policy of PLO, and the
stated policy of the State of Israel
MARSHALL DOUGLAS: It’s the conduct of
the United States to facilitate Israel taking as much
land as they can possibly take from the Palestinian
people.
COUNCIL MEMBER LEVIN: I mean that’s not
borne out by the facts.
MARSHALL DOUGLAS: Oh, contrare.
COUNCIL MEMBER LEVIN: Thank you very
much, Madam Chairman.
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: Okay, I’m going
to call up— Thank you very much for your patience
and waiting and two—two women I have seen up there
whose name I distinctly remember calling out earlier,
and Rosalind Petchesky whose name I don’t remember
calling our earlier. Thank you for your patience and
we look forward to hearing your testimony.
ROSALIND PETCHESKY: First of all, I’m
Rosalind Petchesky. I’m an distinguished professor
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of American Political Science recently retired from
Hunter College and the CUNY Graduate Center and
resident for decades of Manhattan’s Upper West Side.
So in your district, Chair. I want to—I did submit
this testimony. I want to expunge the first
sentence, which is to thank you because I don’t thank
you. I’ve been sitting here for 4-1/2 hours. I
submitted this form 4-1/2 hours ago and it somehow
got lost mysteriously, and I agree with my colleagues
who have said this has been lacking in integrity and
professionalism. It’s a sham. I strongly oppose
this resolution. As a New Yorker, a scholar and
educator, a life long social and racial justice
advocate and as a Jew. And as a Jew who first when
to Israel at age 16 right during the Civil Rights
Movement, and witnessed racism at age 16 when I was
told by white Israelis not to talk to dark skinned
people who were Jews, North African Jews. I wanted
to address the distortions and fallacies the most
egregious ones in this resolution that many people
have done this wonderfully. I’ll say a few things.
Equating criticisms of Israeli policies and of
Zionism with efforts to delegitimize the State of
Israel is flawed thinking because it rests on the
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assumption that Israel and must remain—is and must
remain an exclusively Jewish state whose Palestinian,
Christina and non-believing residents are second
class at best. I’m also the niece of the foremost
biographer of Martin Guber, Martin Guber and Arendt,
Albert Einstein and other illustrious Jews, Jewish
intellectuals have rejected this ethno-national
ideology because it is inherently undemocratic and
exclusionary. So, no, I don’t believe in the twostate solution. I believe in one state, which is
democratic and pluralist. I’m going to say one more
thing. I’m sorry because I’ve been sitting here such
a long time. Two more things. One is that as a
professor in CUNY I’ve worked with CUNY for Palestine
students for Justice in Palestine, and it’s
unconscionable if you don’t look at the other side of
physical threats, intimidation, Islamophobia that my
students have experienced over and over again. And
secondly, I want to say as a political scientist I
have to ask why the City Council feels obliged to
pass a resolution on behalf of a foreign power.
Equating Zionism in the state of Israel with the
interests of all New Yorkers not only disregards our
city’s Palestinian, Muslim, Christian, Hindu,
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Chinese, Korean and so on population. It also
insults the many Jews in New York City who don’t
share Zionist values. It treats us as nobody.
Although a City Council resolution has no force of
law, it can nevertheless contribute to a poisonous
climate of intimidation and hostility especially
against students and activists. The City Council
should reject this kind of bias and dangerous taking
of sides.
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: Thank you.
Please. [pause]
FEMALE SPEAKER: Okay. I’m an Israeli.
I’m an American Citizen. I’m a Holocaust survivor
and I do not want the Palestinians to pay for the
crimes that the Europeans did to my family. They
have nothing—they have nothing to do with it. I’ve
lived in Israel most of my life and I’ve been an eye
witness. I know of the daily experiences of my
Palestinians friends. I was there in the north and
south, in the Jordan Valley and I made dear friend
that are demonized—demonized by the majority of
Jewish-Israelis, Jews in the Diaspora and non-Jews
alike. They want to live. They want to be free.
They want justice like you like me. BDS is a non-
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violent struggle for freedom and justice, and I am a
BDS activist in solidarity with my Palestinian
friends. How can a non-violent struggle be
restricted in a democratic country and in New York
City where the Statue of Liberty stands? Who in this
room wants to live under a military regime? Who in
this room is ready to live without drinking water
when the settlements next to you has a swimming pool?
Who in this room will sleep idly as they are denied
year after year building permits and their small
single shed or tent demolished time and again while
your oppressor builds settlements on land that has
been your—that has been there for centuries? Who in
this room is willing to get up at 2 o’clock in the
morning to cross-check points like a herd of cows to
get to work or to school on time? Everyone I this
room has the right and indeed obligation to oppose
this regime. BDS is he growing democratic grassroots
campaign that express the will. The Israeli
oppression is not in my name, and it shouldn’t be in
yours. [applause]
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: Alright, thank
you very much for that. It is late. You know,
please, please. Wow, I was about to thank you. I’m
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COMMITTEE ON CONTRACTS 220
taking that back. Thank you very much for your
testimony. Appreciate it. I want to thank Council
Member Cohen for submitting this resolution–
COUNCIL MEMBER TREYGER: I, uh–
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: Oh, sorry. I’m
so sorry. Council Member Treyger, please. The floor
is yours.
COUNCIL MEMBER TREYGER: I tried to sit
in as much as I could, and some—those who asked
before about why some members will even go, it is
actually a right that some of us have. There’s
multiple committee hearings at the same time. We
have votes to take, but I tried to stay here as long
as I could to listen to all sides of this issue. Let
me just begin by sharing who I am. I’m not just a
City Council Member. I am also a former educator. I
taught high school, then teach college, but I taught
global history. I taught government. Very sensitive
subjects we’ve had to cover during the course of our
curriculum. I am also the son of Ukrainian
immigrants who left the former Soviet Union because
of economic, religious and political oppression. I
am the grandson of Holocaust survivors and World War
II veterans, and I just want to share with you that
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when my grandfather was alive, he served in the
Soviet military against the Nazis, and he told me
that one of the painful things in addition to, you
know, war, which is so painful and dramatic and
traumatic is that even his own fellow soldiers while
they were on the same side fighting the Nazis, his
own fellow soldiers would sit away from him because
they pointed to him that he was a Jew, and that was
very painful to hear my grandfather share that story
with me as a young child. And, as a history teacher,
when I learned that President Roosevelt convened a
conference in France in 1938 to discuss the Jewish
problem of what countries would accept Jew during the
rise of the Nazi governments, and it became clear
that Jews were being oppressed and hurt in Germany
and other parts of Europe. Many countries did not
want to take them in. Many countries did not want
to, including the United States of America, and so,
that’s why—but at the same time, it is that very
reason that—that teachers need that we have an
obligation to be respectful of all. And I want you
to know that when I—my first year in the City Council
when someone from Bensonhurst community alerted me
that they was a flyer being posted in a building in
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Bensonhurst that was anti-Muslim, I immediately went
down to the building, called the local precincts,
made a report, had a press conference to denounce
because an attack against the Muslim community or an
attack against anyone is an attack against us all.
That is the lesson that I learned from my
grandparents and from my parents that when you attack
one member of a community you attack us all. So I
think that in this discussion of BDS, and this
discussion of the Israeli-Arab conflict, too much
time has been given to the fringes of these
discussions, and too little time to the people in the
middle, who I think are the majority who truly want
to see peace in that region that will once and for
all give us peace I think around the world. I just
want to just share with you we spent a lot of time
here discussion the merits of BDS of the roots of BDS
or the goals of BDS. I just want to go over very
quickly about some of the impacts indirect as they—
they might be on social media where it’s painful that
some of people who are promoting a movement that I-I
understand to be a collection of people who are
grassroots activists, but also promoting the idea
that the Holocaust never happened, and that also has
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to be denounced and rejected. As—as Jews we should
call out the Israeli government when they do wrong.
I agree, but people who support the BDS Movement
should call out and reject those who say that my
relatives never died being shot—executed. My
grandfather’s brothers were killed in the Holocaust.
So I condemn that. I also want to discuss some folks
mentioned a figure who I adored in history Mahatma
Ghandi. They’ve quoted him today. Why was killed?
Ghandi was killed by a Hindu Nationalist because he
had the audacity to support a two-state solution with
India and Pakistan. He wanted peace in the region.
He wanted everyone to live peacefully side-by-side
and not just side-by-side but together. He didn’t
believe in separation. He believed in everyone
living together. Even the Egyptian, the former
Egyptian leader was associated, Anwar Sadat because
he had the audacity of recognizing Israel. So, what
I’m trying to get here is this: It is very difficult
to have this discussion in isolation and not—and
ignore the context of history. It’s very difficult
because we hear it referenced here before about—my
colleague Steve Levin mentioned it before about
Imperialism. It’s very hard to divorce that
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discussion from this topic. It’s very relevant to
this discussion, right? It’s relevant because in
World War I Great Britain promised multiple people
the same land.
FEMALE SPEAKER: Will we have time to
respond?
COUNCIL MEMBER TREYGER: Yes, you will.
FEMALE SPEAKER: Quickly?
COUNCIL MEMBER TREYGER: Ma’am, ma’am,
this is my time and I’ve—I’ve listened this entire
hearing, but—but [background comments]
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: I’m going to have
to ask the people in the audience to—
FEMALE SPEAKER: [interposing] I’ve been
waiting—
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: –keep their
thoughts to their thoughts to themselves, or again
unfortunately, even at this later hour, I will ask
the sergeant-at-arms to ask you to leave. We are
hearing from a member of the City Council who has sat
through this hearing and has the right to speak on
this, and we will not interrupt him.
COUNCIL MEMBER TREYGER: Where a European
nation or nations decided for an entire region in the
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Middle East what their lines would look like, how can
we ignore that? Where is the movement to even
boycott? People would say boycott British products.
FEMALE SPEAKER: [interposing] Can I
answer?
COUNCIL MEMBER TREYGER: You know, but—
Ma’am, please.
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: You know what,
after Council Member Treyger speaks, I’m going to
acknowledge Council Member Torres and thank him for
coming, and this hearing will be called to a close.
So please do not anticipate speaking. You had your
chance. You were on the panel. I appreciate your
staying and speaking but at [background
comments/protests] I will not accept any more
interruptions of this committee hearing.
COUNCIL MEMBER TREYGER: A bunch of us—a
bunch, of course, it’s of relevance when you provide
context to a very important matter that’s relevant,
right? It’s—that—that he deems relevant, but the
point—the point I’m making is that in my opinion in
this movement, and what’s happening here as a result
of this is that biggest victim has been the truth and
the truth of the matter is that we have to work
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together as a community. We have to work together
and come as people and civilly. As I said, Chair,
and-and I’ll close. I’ll wrap up by saying this:
This discussion has been hijacked by the fringes of
this issue. The moderate voices, the voices of
sensible people have been hijacked by the fringes of
this discussion on all sides, not just one side. We
need moderate common sense voices to rise and step
up, and the fact that I’m just trying to say is this:
You cannot divorce the facts of what happened from
World War I and what happened in World War II had a
direct impact about what would happen in this region.
And to call for the—to call for the paralysis of the
Israeli economy to think that that somehow will
advance the goals of BDS no my friends. That is not
going to advance peace in that region. If you bring
the state of paralysis to the economy of that region,
you hurt not just Israel, you hurt Palestinians, you
hurt—you hurt an international economy. So I—I ask
this moderate voices, people with—with sensible ideas
to step up, and to come together to support a
sensible, fair two-state solution of an Israel and a
Palestine side-by-side living in peace. It’s about
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them, not about anyone else’s agenda here. Thank
you, Chair.
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: Thank you so
much, Council Member Treyger. I really appreciate
your taking the time to wrap this up. I’m calling
this hearing to a close, and I just want to remind
people that after a disruptive start and sadly a
disruptive end, I want to again apologize to the
panelists beginning with Assembly Member Levine.
PROTESTORS: [interposing] [shouting
protests]
CHAIRPERSON ROSENTHAL: While people were
not talking while the panelists were giving their
points of view, I thought that the points that were
raised today were very thoughtful, and most
importantly I want to thank the sergeants-in-arms,
and their staff today who did a magnificent job in
trying to keep order under a difficult circumstance
led by the able hands of Carl Alba and Rafael Perez.
This hearing is closed. [gavel]
FEMALE SPEAKER:
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C E R T I F I C A T E
World Wide Dictation certifies that the
foregoing transcript is a true and accurate
record of the proceedings. We further certify that
there is no relation to any of the parties to
this action by blood or marriage, and that there
is interest in the outcome of this matter.
Date September 12, 2016________